Thinking Out Loud About: Where Does 27.5″ Fit?- by c_g and Guitar Ted
Last time we took a look at the “middle child” wheel format for mountain bikes was in April when we were pointing out that a resurgence of 27.5″ wheels was upon us. (By the way, we’re joining a growing number of folks that are proposing that the moniker “650B” be dropped for these fat tired wheels since we are talking about mountain biking, not rando/camping bikes here.) Well, you can catch up with all of that here.
While much of the product for 27.5″ has yet to be revealed, much less available to ride, Twenty Nine Inches’ own c_g has not been idle. He has been busily testing product in a couple of ways to first sus out the advantages/disadvantages between all three mountain bike wheel standards.
c_g has assembled a stable of wheels that are as similar as possible to test on a hard tail platform. In fact, the wheels are absolutely identical and were provided by TUNE (www.tune.de) as were the tires by WTB, cassettes and rotors by SRAM. While it may be that some 27.5″ bikes will be hard tail/XC bikes, it is being positioned in the market as a 150-170mm full suspension wheel size, for the most part. That said, c_g felt it was a more “pure” test platform on a rigid hard tail. The variable of suspension being removed, he could then focus on the characteristics of the wheels themselves.
Here is some commentary by c_g concerning how he found each wheel size to work on his bike:
26 Inch: I spent a full week on them, only to get accustomed to them again and not to be blamed I had not given them a real chance ;). It was definitely amazing how easy they picked up speed (in the week I have riddden them I found myslef sprinting up the slopes more often, than ever :)), -> My opinion: Unless sprint properties and acceleration are on the top of your list, I tend to call riding a 26 ” rigid bike a penalty – at least if one wants to go on real trails.
27.5 Inch: It became apparent already on the first trail meters, that the roll-over ability is much better than the 26-inch model. Strangely I also found the the playfullness of the bike and advantages in acceleration to be preserved to a large extent.
29 Inch: -> When it comes to long trips or for their roll-over ability in technical terrain, I would never trade in 29″er wheels – but the gap to 27.5″ wheels is (for me) much less than I had expected. Where the 27.5″ wheel is definitely better is at acceleration and keeping a sense of nimbleness/playfulness on the bike.
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So there were c_g’s first impressions. Then he moved to a front suspended bike and has spent more time with 27.5″ers. This was on a recently tested Bergamont hard tail bike.
The Bergamont was ridden back-to-back on the same trails with both 29 and 27.5″ wheels. After doing several rides, here are c_g’s impressions on this configuration…
The results have been as follows:
• The difference in ride feel between the 29 “wheels and 27.5″ was still detectable under regular riding, but the suspension fork slightly covered over the difference, that was more apparent on the previously ridden rigid bike. The differences primarily showed when pushing the limits or when riding rough grounds seated.
• The 29″ers felt better wherever roll-over ability and traction had been key, the 27.5″ format primarily had the rapid acceleration to bring to the table.
• Subjectively, the 27.5″ wheels felt slightly stiffer (and more precise), but this was offset by the lesser braking traction and cornering grip.
• On a few of the shorter tests I did time myself (with pulse control) and the results had been so close, that no format came out as a clear winner.
What caught my attention though was how riding style impacted how each configuration felt:
• If you drive mostly in a sitting position, remain centered in corners and prefer a not-too-dynamic riding style in the rough – then the 29″ers do have a clear advantage. Here the benefits of 27.5″ cannot overcome the shortcomings at all and the roll-over ability weighs more than improved agility and acceleration. Typical applications for this riding style would be endurance racing, marathons and classic MTB touring.
• If, however, you have a a very active riding style with lots of movement on the bike, if you like riding out of the saddle, push your bike into corners – then the 27.5″ is at least equally fun to ride. Then the lesser traction and grip are outweighed by the better flick-ability and more agile handling. I can ride this way but usually find it draining my body more quickly.
A few years ago the desire for a more agile 29″er may have been halfway justified, but with the latest generation of XC 29″er, bikes like the BMC TE01 or BERGAMONT Revox I no longer count this a valid point. Therefore the tangible benefits of 27.5″ to me are primarily the lower wheel weight and thus easier acceleration. The question on sense and nonsense of 27.5″ for hard tails therefore points towards 27.5″ remaining a niche. By my current position I would not hesitate to purchase a 29″er hard tail if I were looking for one. The only real benefit I see in 27.5” hard tails is primarily with very small frame sizes, where a desired handling characteristic is hard or impossible to achieve with 29 inch wheels.
c-g’s INTERMEDIATE CONCLUSION: For hard tails and rigid bikes my preliminary view is that with the new generation of agile 29″er geometries the advantages of 29″er far outweigh (if not negate) the benefits of the lighter 27.5″ wheels. There may be a true benefit with very small frame sizes, but anything else in my opinion will be 29″er territory – and by what we see in industry news, pretty much every manufacturer tends to agree.
So much for now on my testing of 27.5″ on hard tails – next we will step into the realm of full-suspension bikes and will have something truly special for you coming. More on that
soon. (c_g)
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We’ll be reporting on our experiences with the 27.5″ sized wheels, which we expect will be making a big splash in Europe, and will be pushed hard for full suspension in the longer travel realm here in North America. Stay tuned for more from c_g, and reports on new introductions from Eurobike and Interbike this fall.
I don’t know, I have this suspicion if someone introduces a good 160mm 29er fork on upcoming Eurobike/Interbike than whole 27.5 platform would be in serious trouble.
This site is just great – I really appreciate your access to so much bike tech and trust the conclusions (preliminary or not) that you draw from riding all this great stuff. I agree that 27.5 will be a niche product. Likely possibility is that it will take some market from 26″ wheels, but 26″ will never die – considering kids who must start with smaller wheels due to their size. Anyway, to me it’s all bikes and it’s all good.
An observation I have is that platform-type markets seem to converge on only 2 options: Democrats/Republicans, Mac/PC, iOS/Android, Wii/Xbox. From reading the news earlier this year, it seemed that Christoph Sauser’s WC wins on that superbike really bumped the awareness of 27.5” wheels. Since then the attention seems to have waned.
My new set of wheels with carbon rims are ~1420g, which is really light. They are about 200g lighter than my prior wheels. My primary impression is that they spin up like a 26” wheel. The point has been made many times on this site (read all the carbon rim experiment articles), that good light wheels mitigate the main negative of the 29” wheel.
@Motivated: Thank you. I have deliberately not been making predictions on how the market is going to develop, but based all my comments entirely on the ride sensation I had on those two bikes (rigid and hard tail). What will come of the new standard is still very open, but we see more and more companies enter the scene with 27.5″ bikes (lots of them European, but some US as well).
I agree with your comments on wheel weight and how a lightweight 29er wheel (on a good 29er frame) can beat anything else out there – but want to point out that I can confirm only for hard tails (so far) and standard sized bikes (verrrry small riders may find a better fit on a 27.5 frame).
Once we step into longer travel full suspension bikes the situation may well look differently – I have ridden many of the current 29er LT susses and some were quite a handful to handle. This may be the prime application where 27.5 could bring the best compromise to the rider – I am currently doing a test like this together with a print magazine , but won´t be able to publish here before late in August.
Ps: If you refer to the WC victory in Petrmaritzburg on a 27.5″ bike – that was Nino Schurter (not Sauser)
@ Ojos Azules: You may have a point, but designing a 160 mm rear end on a 29er without having the bike ride like a tank (or it being too specialist) is another matter. We will see.
Are these not exciting times in the MTB Sport.
c_g,
Thanks for the nice overview- as a rider who is active on the bike, really like having lighter wheels to toss around. In any case,
How do you guys feel about some brands’ decision to leave the “.5” off the 27.5in title? Looking at the three side by side, the 650 is clearly closer to a 26in wheel and I, for one, stumble over the .5 when speaking out loud. “27s” is just easier (and less dorky) to say than “twenty seven point five-er” or “twenty-seven/five-er..”
mb
@Marc: The numeric value “27” is commonly referring to the ISO630 bead diameter which you may know was a road bike tire size for years. In fact, it most often is named in reference to its width, for example- “27 X 1 1/4”. (Twenty seven by inch and a quarter)
If we can say that without issue, I don’t see any problems with “27 point five”, plus it keeps the confusion level down, which admittedly will be there to some degree in shops anyway.
I work in a bicycle shop and I can vouch for the fact that whenever tire sizes come up, confusion levels escalate. No matter what you call it, it’ll need a lot of consumer education to get the message through.
That said, we’re sticking with 27.5″ here. 🙂
Ok, we’re sprinting now. Last corner ona grass field, then 50m to the line. Head to head, 2 equal contenders on otherwise identical 26″ and 29″ bikes.
Does the sprint favor the 26″ bike? The 29″ bike rounds the corner faster than the 26″ could dream. In my racing, I’ve had guy pick my wheel and just wash out into nasty crashes, you just can’t follow my line and pace when my tires are dialed for the terrain at hand. Confirmed this by riding around a circular little maze in a field. No way to keep up with the 29″ bike on the 26″er, when you’re in a continuous corner.
The 29″ rider is not afraid to lead into the last corner. A bike is 2m long roughly, and he opens up an extra meter before the corner is done with, exiting at 1mph more (I’l be modest). The 26″ now has 50m to not only only overcome the 3m deficit, but first stop it from opening up more, due to the different exit speeds. That’ll take a humongous slipstream.
Next scenario, a race start, zero to 30mph over grass. I’ve done this from the starting line, it’s brutal. Does the roll ability over bumpy terrain (we’re talking offroad bikes after all) not overcome any added weight in the wheels? And largest wheels pose less resistance even when it’s dead flat! The 300g extra wheel weight over that 0-30mph sprint doesn’t add up to many saved Joules. Averaging 25mph+ over the first few few hundred meters of the race though, it adds up to have a larger wheel that rolls smoother.
I just don’t get the advantages attributed to 26″. When I made the switch, it was the first time I would no longer struggle to keep anyone’s wheel on singletrack. I started dropping all my singletrack guru’s, at will. Felt like cheating. I hugely frustrated some semi-pro riders that have known me all my racing career, and always bettered me, until… Just dropped them on the very most winding singletrack available in our country.
Race starts, I’d open up silly long gains, or made up huge ground, not typical for me, especially considering I lost my top bike shape in the same period, due to asthma and tall blond women.
A part of the deal may be finding out how to handle the bigger wheels, it’s different. More is possible. You need to take what the bike offers extra, it’s not entirely free speed.
c_g
Thanks for the timely write up. We are considering new bikes (RM Element 950s). A big investment as my wife and I both want new rides. Then this 27.5″ thing comes up. A few of the people around here have been upgrading 26″ platforms RM Element RSLs) with 27.5″ wheels and are loving it. I should mention that these are very good riders that have a lot of time on 29ers.
My question. Did you have any funky fit / handling issues swapping between wheel sizes? In other words, do you think slapping a set of 27.5″ wheels on a 26″ platform is a good idea? It opens up a lot of (inexpensive) possibilites – for example, converting RSLs, Epics, SC Superlites. It seems that I can get lightly used 26″ bikes a lot cheaper than 29ers or 27.5 bikes.
Thanks
So if I get this right, 26’rs are history, 650’s are the new 26’r and 29’rs still rule?
When 29’rs first came out, many people said that you no longer need suspension. That the bigger wheels and larger pneumatic effect made suspension systems(front and rear) no longer necessary. Now you say you are waiting for 160mm travel bikes. WTF! 30.5’s will be the next 29’rs, no suspension needed…the debate goes on.
@Yogi: I think what you may be referring to is how FS XC 26″ers were supplanted by hard tail 29″ers in the XC/trail segment. In that case, the roll over benefits of 29″ers did negate the short travel 26XC bike advantages. Keep in mind that early on a 29″er FS bike was thought to be stupid, it wouldn’t work, and too many geometry compromises would have to be made to get one to work. ;)(Fisher Sugars were an early exception)
Mr. Lenz is laughing all the way to the bank on that one, but that’s another story.
In terms of the extreme end of suspension travel/usage, this argument holds a lot more credence.
I read Nino Schurter’s comments in MBA that he believed his small size (5′ 8″) just made the 27.5″ bike a much better fit than a 29er.
But then you read that Willow Koerber (5′ 2″) and Heather Irmiger (5′ 4″) think that 29ers are the greatest thing ever.
…… I’m confused.
@Cloxxki What kind of bike/bikes are you riding now (and back before your switch) ?
Above I am commenting about what format favors what riding style:
Nino Schurter is a very technical and dynamic rider – who loves to move on the bike (just se him ride). To me this explains more credibly why he likes 27.5 better than 29er – but that is only my personal conclusion. Maybe he really feels like a 29er would´t fit, but I have seen plenty of smaller riders being perfectly happy with their 29er bikes.
W. Koerber on the other hand is a pretty extreme (read: small) example of a pro 29er rider. Here I could understand how she could´t make a 29er fit – but if it does … all the better :-).
Don´t be confused – go out and ride your bike and enjoy nature. Whatever format feels best to you – that is the right one.
Hmm. I’d be willing to try a 27.5, but I really don’t feel the need. Not like when I rode a garden variety hard tail and gazed longingly at the full suspension wonder rigs at the local races.
@Tony, it’s not that confusing at all.
A bigger wheel makes your butt look smaller. There are no women that do not want that and skinny world cup racers are no exception. OK, Pendrel perhaps, but her behind would look small even on 24″ wheels.
It fits on the twentysevenpoint5 website. Ha!
I like 29ers from 0 to 4″ of travel, and I like the idea of 650B from 5″ to 7″ of travel. I would really be interested in try a 160mm travel 650B.
I find the often repeated “larger wheel takes more energy to get up to speed” little tiresome.
Practically every model/calculation on inertia demonstrates how irrelevant rotating mass is in a larger scale of things and that that there’s NOT going to be any meaningful difference in ACTUAL acceleration/speed that a few hundred grams (or extra mm of diameter) of rotating mass would make (comparing to the static weight), no matter how firmly you believe in this.
Identical 26″ and 29″ wheels are likely to feel different but the whole inertia hysteria has got completely out of control.
It’s the rolling resistance and the body weight that most of mountain bikers should worry about, first.
I came across your website through ask.com and I pretty overwhelmed by all the information about mountain biking. I looking for a nice new active hobby and this seemed like something I could enjoy.The hard part is coming to a conclusion about what bike brand and type of I should start with. Im 6’8 250 lb and I not trying to spend more than a grand, any suggestions? Please feel free to email me if you have some good information for starters.
Your comment, c_g, about riding style caught my eye. Lately I’ve tried to take a more dynamic approach to certain trails, and for those I’ve gone back to a 26er (a rigid one, no less). And indeed, as you suggest, I have been liking the smaller wheels when I want to be more dynamic on the bike, and the larger wheels for when I want to cover long distances.
I should add, the 26er rigid I mention in my previous post is one frame size down from what I would choose for a ride involving distance. So it is not just the wheel size, but also the frame size I am changing in order to be more dynamic on the bike.
Yeah, I agree that c_g penned a thought I have had too…that 29ers are and always will be less ‘moto’ no matter how short the chain stays are, etc. They are just not about that type/style of riding. Yes, you can do it, but it is not natural or easy. But the 650b I rode was much, much more playful if you like wheels off the ground. However, wheels on the ground it was sure not a 29er.
So what do you want your bike to feel like? Buy the biggest wheel that works for you.
Well done c_g.
gg
From the pictures in the article :
Is it possible to fit a 650b wheel on a DT Swiss XR fork?