650b/27.5″er: Revisted – Testing Announcement: with c_g and Guitar Ted
As we have reported in the past, the 650B/27.5″er wheel size has been tried with some very limited success in the industry, created a very passionate rider base, and seemed to be stuck in neutral as far as developments for the past few years. We’ve been keeping our ear to the ground here at Twenty Nine Inches and have been saying for the past six months that 650B/ 27.5″ers are coming for 2013. We know Rock Shox, Fox,(revealed today), several wheel/rim manufacturers, and tire companies are all busy behind the scenes creating product for a big introduction of this wheel size for next year.
We've taken a look at 650B before...
In response to this, we are going to be covering the news concerning this “middle ground” of mountain bike wheel sizes starting with our Sea Otter coverage where we suspect the first sights of 2013 650B/27.5″er product will surface. We also are announcing planned testing of this wheel size and c-g will be leading in that as we go forward. Europe stands to be a hotbed for 650B/27.5″ers, according to our sources. As for U.S. based companies, we will be finding out more as things develop and responding accordingly.
Keep On Riding!
Guitar Ted
Following is the European perspective from our own c_g who has already been digging into this newest of developments in the European mountain biking scene.
The new „Middle Class“ is one of the prime topics here in Europe – first there had been 26-inch bikes well established and seemingly unquestioned over decades, then 29″ers came along, finally getting the attention here in Europe they rightfully deserved and just now there is already much clamor about the new middle grounds – namely 27.5“ also called 650b.
If you believe the industry rumors (many of them confirmed by now) and pay any attention to the sidelines in conversations, then the new format is a lot more than just a rumor and far beyond prototyping stage.
„They are coming!“ is the message we receive from several sides.
Nino Schurter has already won a World Cup XC event on a 650B bike.
Just recently Nino Schurter took the victory in Pietermaritzburg, South Africa on board a prototype 27.5“ bike by SCOTT, which could be a fabulous beginning … or maybe not?!
•But what are the real benefits fort he rider?
•What are the advantages/disadvanteages?
•Who is it best suited for?
•More than Hype and marketing?
•What chances do we see and why NOW?
These and other questions are being discussed here at TNI Europe and while we call our site „twentynieninches“, we wouldn´t be where we are if we wouldn’t be generally open for new things and useful innovation. Why then shouldn’t we be peeking over the brim or shall I say over the Big Wheeled horizon?
We are going to look at the new format from different angles, be it from a 26-inch or a 29″er enthusiast perspective. We will try out the concept on rigid bikes, on long travel full suspension bikes. We will hear and report voices from customers, shop owners and industry representatives. While we have an opinion on the concept we will not voice them until we have a firm riding background on them from different rides – so don´t expect any quick conclusions from our side – this series will accompany us for a good part of 2012.
It remains to be exciting – while 29″ers are just being established (yet still far from having arrived at the basis of casual riders), we see how a new wheel and bike format is being introduced. We shall see how the „new fish in the pond“ does and will report back on what we think and hear.
Stay tuned,
c_g
It will allow the big wheel mockers to get an almost decent size wheel while in denial that they have admitted that bigger is better. They’ll say they are still on a 26″ size, although it is 584mm versus 559mm and actually a 26″x 1 1/2″ size.
Maybe they could go even further to the British 26″ x 1 1/4″ which is a 597mm diameter and not far short of a 29er’s 622mm? They could still pretend they were on midget wheels.
🙂 🙂
Last I checked, 29ers are more established in World Cup victories. How is a rider winning the world championship on a 29er not established?
So, I thought the interesting commentary from Pietermaritzburg (sp?) was the idea of aligning frame sizes and wheel sizes.
i.e. small frame = 26″, medium frame = 27.5″, large frame (+) = 29″
I wonder if that’s the direction the industry will end up pushing towards. I suspect that it won’t be as clean cut, but it’s been interesting to watch in the XCO races nino’s been in. He was one of only two (absalon being the other) to take that rather sketchy technical line in the downhill section on the weekend – and even then, absalon only began taking it because nino started. Perhaps it was easier on a 27.5″ wheel? perhaps that’s the way WC XC racers will view it… ‘a 29″ opens up a quicker line for me’
The sceptic in me says that the manufacturers (components primarily) have just found another dimension in which to develop products, and are now cranking up the marketing machine to support those endeavours.
For example, instead of Fox producing three XC racing forks at 100m (R, RL, RLC or whatever they are these days); they can replicate that product line across 26″, 27.5″, 29″. As soon as people shift wheel size, they’re going to need to purchase more components.
Interesting times indeed – looking forward to the reviews!
I remember reading somewhere about how Scott race team staff said Nino fit the 650b better than the 29er. He’s 5’8
@Jubas, you can assume that the top WC XC racers ride well below their actual capabilities in the downhills. Absalon has been delivering top enduro race results, only outshined by his brother.
My guess is taking a line like that is more a question of inventivity (you still have to find the possibility first) and risk/reward tradeoff.
Wheelsize has very little to do with it. In fact, only Nino and Julien took that line, on 650B and 26″ wheels. That means lots of 29er riders did not, although ‘in theory’ it should have been safer with your centre of gravity lower in respect to the wheel axles.
So there you go: Even at world cup level, skill, inventivity and courage make more difference than wheelsize.
I would say the 27.5 is a bit of a misnomer. Its closer to 26 than 29 if you look at ERD. In fact a 26″ with a 2.4 tire would work out to the same diameter as a 26 with a 1.9 tire. I wouldnt mind trying a 650b with a 3 inch tire up front with my rigid fork tho!
I look at 26 and 29 inch wheels like XC an DH bikes. It’s better to have both then to compromise and get one bike that does all.
As far as Nino and his World Cup win, I think that was mainly due to the tight and twisty track in PMB and the guys riding 29er bikes with wide bars were at a disadvantage from the start.
I don’t think we’ll ever settle on a best size. Just look at the UCI XC results so far. 26, 650b and 29 have all been represented in the top three in both races so far.
I somewhat agree with the commentary that Jubas mentioned. Frame dimensions get a bit wonky when you try to stuff 29 inch wheels under a frame meant for someone on the short side of the scale. Schurter even spoke of the idea behind riding 650b was he wasn’t comfortable on a 29er due to sizing issues, and he’s 5’8. So the idea of wheel size being based on rider/frame size makes sense to a degree. There will still be a need for a rider/riding genre to have a preference, and that’s what might start stretching the idea too far.
Sounds like twentynineinches,com needs a 5’8″ test rider…………
I wonder if the fresh debate on wheel size will stall the adoption of 29ers in Europe. This year all the brands and magazines are promoting 29ers. But, I have yet to see one on a trail where I live in Austria. I think the low weight, backward compatibility and “known quantity” of 26ers dominate the mindset.
I just have to say – Nino Schurter’s 650 is absolutely amazing. THAT is a race bike.
Ibis MoJo 650B (yes, they fit fine) what a difference!
Fun,fun,fun!
Lynskey Pro 29 with gears for speed.
Singular single speed for that steel feel!
Different bikes for different rides.
I’ve already got a 650b full suspension in the works. I like this wheel size for the terrine I ride. I’m on board and ready to go for it.
If all 29ers had 51mm offset forks plus lower standover heigts, 27,5er would not exist. Cube uses 51mm on all 29ers as well as Trek and Specialized only in the smallest women sizes.
Why not on all of them?
Why no to lighter gearing like 20-30-40 x 13-38 or 39 on 29ers? They would appeal more to AM group. Also negative riser bars to get the grips lower than the stem. It works fine on road bikes. Why not on 29ers?
Full Squish 650’s kind of make sense……….
It’s the engine powering the bike ultimately that wins the race..
I could agree with the different tires for different sizing but I wold use 29er for medium and above, 650B for small and 26 for extra small.
@JeroenK
I don’t think it’s that clean cut to be honest. While I agree that XC world cup riders ride well below their maximum technical capabilities, they have to balance risk/reward for taking a significantly more technical line. Absalon *had* to take that line in order to keep up with Nino. I think that the bigger wheel size made that particular shortcut easier….. however:
It was a very hard left after just coming out of the preceding switchback to hit the cheeky line, and then, it was a very hard right to get a decent line into the following switchback. I think those two very tight turns (entry and exit) would have been hard to do on a 29er
And yes, i understand that WC racers have incredible handling abilities and that 29ers are pretty good at turning these days. But I think that even at WC level, that was a hard short-cut to hit (at speed, consistently, safely).
I do agree with your conclusion that skill, inventivity and courage make *more* of a difference at world cup level, but the bike (and wheel size) definitely play a part in success.
Me and a buddy were talking. The 650 may be the bike industries answer to getting the softer sex “women” on bigger tires. Seems that only Giant has figures out how to make a full suspension 29er designed to fit a woman. I know lots of women looking for a smaller frame set up that want on niners but can’t find a bike that fits them. This might be the answer to the problem.
Took our Jamis rep’s 650B/27.5’R Dragon out for a spin the other day, quite impressive. Handled better than my 1st gen 29’R Rig, more forgiving than my old Bianch B.U.S.S, that I still own but hardly ever ride. Have owned a 2nd gen Rig and absolutely loved that bike. Next I plan to swipe the same reps Dakar 650B Pro and take it for a long ride. Will my next bike be a 650B? Most likely not, but I haven’t ruled it out! This wheel standard could very well be the best of both worlds. I think terrain and riding style will be the determining factors on which wheel size is best for a rider to choose.
Hi,
Negative drop bars looks terribly awfull in my eyes. But it is a matter of personal preferences.
I say bring more stuff and everybody would be able to mix and match. More sizes means more choice, and that is good for us, pedal pushers.
Cheers!
I.
We should probably take a step back on the relation of wheel size to victories….that’s a stretch. No one has yet to beat someone they couldn’t beat before (or have in their sights at least) just because they were on a 29er. Only thing winning races did was prove that a 29er wasn’t a bad choice. That wheel weight wasn’t as much of an issue as we thought.
All of these world cup guys, we can put them on the same bike and get similar results ranking wise. Hell, mix it up and put people randomly on different wheel size bikes…..it won’t make a striking difference. Ever. As someone already pointed out, it’s the engine in the end. Riders ride what marketing departments tell them to ride. This isn’t like the ’90s when a guy like Ned or Tomac could try different brakes or such. The stuff they got away with riding without a contract then would never happen now.
A 650B win is no where near as significant as a 29er was, but even a 29er was just a matter of getting weights in line. The bike did not make the difference in either case….guys at this level are just pure machines.
So many opinions in a world of evolution,just bring on the 27.5 revolution!! (ABOLISH 26)
@Jubas yes, I think this way of sizing a rider for their style for getting dirty sould be the right way of selecting a bike. We do it for children, why not for adults?
GT, are you changing your tune now. You’ve openly posted several times on MTBR and your own blog that it’s a marketing gimmick by those brands who missed out on the 29er rush. Pity you diehard hard tail 29er riders only consider rollover in your perspective. 27.5/650B has real traction and stbility gains over 26″ and rolling weight advantages over 29er trail wheel/tires. No point in comparing them with 29er hard tails as they can’t compete with rollover for hard tails.But then that’s not where they will shine. FS trail/ AM is 650B territory.
@Geeves: Changing my tune? That isn’t for me to say. That is in the eye of the beholder. As far as I am concerned, my beef with 650B has always been about the claims of marketing. Otherwise- they are bicycles. I like bicycles. 🙂
I remember that Pacenti and Notubes have released 2 years ago a 650b wheelset. Last year I got the chance to ride a 650b and a 29″ bike at the same day. for me the 29″ was easier to handle. the 650b was direct and not far from my 26″ hardtail.
maybe can the bike industrie start a new project,… hardtail with frontwheel 29″ and rear wheel 650b.
or 26″. Like the Cannondales from 1986 with f=26″ r=24″
without suspension a nice bike for technical difficult singletrails.
regards from Switzerland