In terms of what is available to put on your bike for tubeless tires for 29″er bikes, the choices are getting better, but it isn’t any secret that most 29″er riders that run tubeless tires are still “converting”. Taking products not designed for use in a tubeless context and “making do” with them. Even this humble writer can claim this “transgression”.
It is interesting to note that a whole category of products is available for you to pursue your “habit” too. Whole companies are based upon this “conversion” of non-tubeless product to tubeless uses. This isn’t anything new. It goes way back into the mid-nineties as far as the roots of the techniques we use today are concerned. What is new is how this technology and 29″er tires and rims have changed the game for not only users of this “dark art”, but for the tire and rim manufacturers as well.
First off, it needs to be explained why one would do such a conversion in the first place. The desire for tubeless tires can be traced to racing. Racers were looking to rid themselves of more rotational mass and in the process of converting the standard folding bead tires of the day, they also discovered an advantage in traction and lower rolling resistance. Sealants were developed from latex that allowed the porous sidewalls to stop leaking air and also helped with punctures. It wasn’t long before other riders were adapting this technique for their own trail bikes. Things were progressing at such a rate that Mavic and several tire manufacturers stepped up and developed the first commercially available tubeless rim/tire systems dubbed “UST” leading at least one popular magazine of the day to write that “tubes were dead”.
Well, tubes are still in wide use to this day, but tubeless advantages were well known and tubeless systems were readily available for 26″ers at the advent of the modern 29″er in 1999. Early adopters wanted tubeless tires on their big wheels too, but of course, there were no UST systems available, and no tubeless conversions yet for 29 inch tires. That didn’t stop riders from trying though, of course. What resulted was a string of failures mostly due to the different physics at work with 29 inch wheels. Tires were made with segmented beads, or beads that were up to 26″er strength standards, but used tubeless in a 29″er size, were too weak. These tires were failing left and right. Even using some early 29″er tires and rims with tubes was causing intermittent failures. Riders blamed loose fitting tires, or undersized rims, but it is also worth pointing out that this was all new territory for manufacturers and new methods for making 29 inch product was obviously necessary.
Several things have happened since those earlier times. There are dedicated tire/rim systems for tubeless out now in 29″er sizes with a decent amount of selections that satisfy most riders. However; there still are several tire and rim manufacturers that have not publicly stated they are selling products that are tubeless compatible, or are saying so in a very subtle way. This leaves riders with a situation that is ambiguous and the lack of manufacturers leadership in terms of what does and doesn’t work is troubling to many riders.
The result is that today a rider opting for a tubeless system may go with a complete system, or in many cases, a choice between competing systems components mixed together, and finally may end up with doing their own conversions on components not specifically designed or approved for tubeless uses. How does one know what works and what doesn’t? That is a good question that raises debates on forums, trail heads, and in bicycle shops all across the world. Trial and error still reigns supreme in the area of finding out what will be reliable as a tubeless tire set up for 29″ers.
This writer has experienced several intermittent sidewall failures in converted tubeless tires.
While this is not an ideal situation for 29″er trail riders, it is interesting to note that the rate of failures has decreased from the earlier days. I recall one tire manufacturer’s employee telling me that they were taking their entire line of 29″er tires, converting them to tubeless, (using a “ghetto system” popular then), and hearing several explosions from the room where the work was being done. The results were one extremely latex soaked employee and a total redesign of the tire line up for 29″er sizes. Interestingly, this company still does not offer tubeless ready 29″er tires. That said, we also do not hear about failures running these particular tires anymore either.
So, the question is are tires and rims being designed with possible tubeless conversion “abuse” in mind? Maybe. It is obvious that manufacturers that do not produce tubeless ready products are making modifications to older models or designing new product that, if not done with tubeless conversions in mind, are certainly making it easier for riders to convert these products. That said, failures still occur. Sidewalls in tires meant for tubes have extra stress placed on them when run tubeless and may fail. Rims not designed for tubeless conversions may still allow tires to pop off the bead seat. Combinations of tires and rims designed for tubeless use may not be compatible with each other, causing more troubles.
2010 is bringing more tubeless compatible rims and tires to riders. Hopefully a “standard” will be reached at some point which will allow riders the peace of mind that the tire and rim they have chosen is a compatible pairing. Perhaps a time will come when all 29″er tires are tubeless ready out of the box. Maybe all rims will come with sealed inner rim walls or recommended rim strips to make tubeless set ups less experimental. Until that time, converting to tubeless tires on a 29″er can still be fraught with peril.
GT: I was over at my LBS and saw a spankey new pair of Geax Barro Mountain tires. The package indicated they were TNT but the inside of the tire casing had those rubber ribs ive seen on other UST tires before. Seems like a pretty beefy all mountain option.
I agree that many tire companies are taking advantage of the common knowledge that their tires work well tubeless despite not being labeled tubeless and are even probably designing or modifying them with that intent. From a liability stand point I can understand their reluctance. A tube and tire is so well established and perceived to be idiot proof whereas tubeless is still a mystery to many people.
I think at some point the manufacturers are going to have step up and label their products as tubeless ready if they are losing sales for the lack of that feature.
I’m guessing the exploding company was Maxxis based on their complete radio silence on tubeless 29ers (I emailed them 2yrs in a row with no response – hello Bonty/Hutch, I’m your new customer).
Would also be nice if the good folks at Edge Composites would do the 29er rim in a real tubeless. Have the rumours been substantiated?
@Ted: I have heard that Edge is indeed taking a look at how to get that done with their rims. Expect a modification to the inner rim well if they do which would accommodate a Stan’s strip.
I might be lucky, but I tried the ‘tubeless Russian roulette game’ a couple of dozens of tires in the last few years.
Only a Maxxis Flyweight blew up on me, probably because I was stupid enough to leave it at 60psi and throw it in the back of my car to get to a race in a hurry…
I agree, this should not be a trial&error thing, but it works for me! There are some rules though: Do not use loose fitting tires and high pressure, apart for a short moment to seat the beads.
I am one of those people for whom tubeless is a mystery. Is there really any advantage for the recreational rider? Seems like all the plusses are mainly for racing. I don’t have a problem with pinchflats running tubes. And having to reseal a tire everytime I change it for trail conditions or riding on the road or whatever sounds like a major PITA. Is there something I’m missing?
I’m in central TX, until I went tubeless, flated every ride, can you say cactus? I used rim strips, a hassle, but worked, picked up some Stan’s 355’s used and havn’t looked back. Aside from the eventual evaporation(?), no problems, but I do prefer the CaffeLatex. And I don’t race.
@John: Tubeless tires do look like a huge hassle in terms of set up, non-changeability in terms of tire swapping, and systemic problems as detailed above, but if you think about it, there must be something to it, or folks wouldn’t go to all this trouble. 😉
In my experience, the switch was really frustrating, but the rolling feel of a tubeless tire is better than tubed, the traction of the tire is enhanced somewhat, and the resistance to pinch flatting is real.
That said, a tubed set up with a wide rim and big tire can approximate a similar feel, albeit with extra weight involved. it really depends upon the set up, the riding style, and the trails ridden for each rider.
From a pure racing context, tubeless is by far and away a big advantage.
Thanks a million for this, GT. You have touched on the real crux of the “conversion” dilemma. In most products, our lawsuit-happy society forces extreme disclaimers when a product can be/is used in a different way than designed and marketed.
Not so MTB tires. Tire companies other than Bonty with their excellent TLR system, and a few others with UST, wink at the use of their tires in tubeless set-ups. Now that I know this, I do my best to find the TLR or other tubeless-specific tire for the job. But I have one converted set I just can’t give up – I’ll continue to watch it, but there’s nothing else like it for the purpose.
Here’s hoping some of the other big names (like WTB) see their way clear to joining the tubeless way of doing things.
Again, a very valuable and frank discussion. As a relative newbie, I would have loved to see this sooner.
I would be extremely cautious in any front tire tubeless conversion and strongly recommend against it. In the rear it doesn’t matter if you are flying through some corner and the bead blows off the rim. If that happens to the front tire during the same scenario your face is going to hit the dirt real quick. I like my teeth the way they are. This warning is especially meant for all you guys that seem to almost be bragging about how low of pressures you run in your tires on this website. You’re at the greatest risk of catastrophic failure and subsequent injury.
That said, I’m currently using a bonty rhythm tlr rim with the correct bonty tlr strip and a specialized 2bliss Eskar 2.3 tire up front right now. I’m pretty confident with this setup because of the large ridge on the rimstrip and the substantial tubeless bead on the tire that mounts up solidly when inflated. It hardly loses any air over time because it fits so well. When I was using tubes my tires lost air faster than with this setup so I’m pretty pleased with it so far. This is the first front tubeless setup I have used just because I have had many conversion attempts blow up in the shop before they are even ridden including one that blew up in face leaving me covered in sealant and my ears ringing for hours. I’ve also heard about and seen a lot of customers that got hurt when their homemade setup failed in a tech section of trail or in a corner. Remember, even tubed setups fail in the corners sometimes. I just saw it happen on a group ride recently and this type of failure has cost plenty of DH racers their entry fee when they DNFed with this kind of failure. Eric Carter lost at Sea Otter because of this exact type of failure WITH A TUBE. Just google it or check mtbr and there are plenty of horror stories.
Be careful guys! I’m not trying to be confrontational here, just trying to give a little tough love to hopefully save you guys some real headaches and heartaches.
This means your going to have to put a tube in on the trail “same as a normal tube type flat” and deal with it when you get home. Small holes in the side wall that don’t take on the trail can easily be repaired at home with a standard glue patch kit. Just find the hole, clean the hole on the inside of the tire, rub with isopropyl alcohol and apply a glue tire patch large enough to seal the hole. I usually use a hair dryer to speed up the drying of the glue and to ensure a good bond. I have done this on a Kenda small block 8 three times before it was worn out. These were slow leaks “on the side wall” that didn’t require installing a tube on the trail.
The tnt system that Geax runs is by far the tightest bead dia that I have come across. The concept as I understand it it, is that the bead is tubeless but the casing will not be air tight w/o some liquid sealant.
We have sold tons of these tires. The Saguro is a bit heavy but they work in varied terrain. I rode these on the San juan Hut to hut (Telluride to moab) this fall and they were flawless in all the conditions I saw. They also work well on the east coast.
These tires are also cheaper than many we see (schwalbe??WTF!! $80+ per tire?)
It is my wish is that all the tires we see come with a bead that is like the TNT system. What they do with the casing is each company’s call but if the bead was at least consistent, things would be better.
As for wheels, the new Haven 29er UST from Easton is the direction that i wish more mfg’s would go. No tape, no questions. qr and q15 out of the box. (If they would just make a lefty front wheel..
I just recently switched over to tubeless. The stock wheels on my bike weren’t great and riding here in Phoenix, you are prone to so many flats from cactus. I was interested in a better wheel, the better ride of tubeless, and better flat protection.
Stans was appealing to me for a variety of reasons, but ultimately I decided to go with a complete ‘system’, Bontrager TLR using Bontrager tires. I know GT says that Continential 2Bliss tires work great on the TLR rims too and who knows I may try that, but for now I love using the 29-3 up front and Jones ACX in the rear so am not driven to try the Conti’s just yet.
In the short time I’ve been running tubeless it has been wonderful, hopefully that experience will continue.
@randyharris
2Bliss is a Specialized tire moniker. I have run Contis tubeless, with success, but re-mounting them took an air compressor to get the bead to begin to seat.
grannygear
I understand the risks and also that I’m a relatively lightweight rider, so I can get away with stuff that a 200 pound rider simply can’t, but that said, tire sidewall durability isn’t something that I’ve had to worry about too much here in the midwest. Perhaps if I lived out in Colorado or Utah, I’d be in a different situation, but our largest challenge is goathead thorns in August.
For me, tubeless tires roll faster, have a more supple feel and thus more traction during climbing, braking and in corners. These are all advantages in every riding situation, whether racing or not. They make every ride more enjoyable. Not only that, but the complete elimination of flats makes every ride much, much more enjoyable. Do you know that I rode more than 10,000 miles in 2009 and had only one flat? It was a good season.
The one flat I had wasn’t the fault of the tubeless either… and it was easily fixed.
Of the five bikes I’m currently riding a lot, all are running tubeless. None are tubeless-specific components, and I have tires in-play from Maxxis, Schwalbe, WTB and Conti, using rims from Salsa, WTB, Stan’s, DT and Mavic. I like to experiment… And honestly, I can make anything work. Guitar Ted’s seen it…
Racked my brains over good 29er tubeless systems the other day and I think Bontrager still has it totally nailed. We run this at my shop with Geax Saguaros with great success.
specialized has been in the mtb tire game forever! i run 29 2.0 and 2.2 captians 2bliss tires here in rocky twisty singletrak connecticut. awesome tire 650-675 grms. i use a mix of stans and bontrager super juice, the bontrager selant doesn’t dry up as fast as the stan’s shcwalbe tires are lite but sidewalls don’t like rocks. scuffed one and it eventually bleed sealent through the cords. big wheels rock the rocks! was on a lynskey pro 29er, just switched components to an epic marathon 29er, awesome.
oh yea, stans rims with dt swiss 240 hubs dt swiss spokes wheels are were its at with 29er’s spend the money on wheels and tires.
Has anyone converted IRC Mibro 2.25 tire ?
tubeless benefit heavy riders too. I pinch flated left and right with tubed 26in tires. It became less of a issue with UST. Unfortunately, many Clydes and aggressive riders feel they can run lighter sub 700gm 29er tires tubeless in rocky conditions and not get a flat. I scored a deal on Mich ATs recently and perfed the tire between the tread. I have a FR3 on the front and a Aramdillo Captain on the rear and I now have much more peace of mind in 15 degree weather. In the summer I run TNT Saguaros and I feel that the stiffer sidewall transfers power better and steers more precisely than lighter weight tires at my weight.