As stated in our first post on this rig, we are doing a review based on the impressions of Grannygear out in Southern California and Guitar Ted who is based in the Mid-West. We hope to bring you a more balanced picture of this black, full suspension wagon wheeler.
We also were fortunate enough to get Specialized Bicycles own Eric Schuda who is in charge of all of Specialized’s 29″er efforts, to chime in. Here is what he had to say when we asked about the goals and design intentions for the Epic Marathon 29:
“For the Epic 29er,the goal of the bike was to take a very successful platform/technology, being the Epic platform and Brain technology, and build off of that (to) make a fast and efficient full suspension 29er. (A) bike that would make an excellent endurance /24 hr race bike, as well as a fun light/nimble trail riding bike. The Epic 29er is built to be a fast climbing and efficient pedalling bike, but we also wanted to make sure that it was stable and confidence inspiring on descents. As fun to ride downhill as it is to stand out of the saddle and hammer uphill. You will notice that our head angle is on the slacker side of things compared to other bikes that would be considered in the same category. This was done on purpose to ensure confident descending. To keep the handling precise we used a low bottom bracket and fairly short chain stays for a full suspension 29er. To sum it up, we were looking for fast, efficient, light, with a good amount of fun factor.”
With that we’ll dive right in with Guitar Ted’s First Impressions of the Epic Marathon 29″er:
The Epic Marathon 29 gets lots of comments for what is hung on it!
First off, I had to make a change to the tires on this rig to accomodate the current conditions here. Wet, muddy trails demanded tires with some better bite than the skinny Captain 2.0 and Fast Trak LK 2.0. I swapped out to a 2.20 Captain Contro; rear/2.3 Eskar front for the test after the first ride. So, with that change made, I was set to ride this rig and find out what the Epic Marathon had for our trails.
As with any suspension device, proper set up is paramount. I took some time dialing in a couple different settings with the air springs and with the Brain Fade. After settling on air pressures and turning the Brain Fade towards the stiffer side a few clicks, I found an agreeable sweet spot and great balance front to rear. Interestingly, just a little bit off either way seemed to really affect the ride negatively.
Off to the trails! I found that the sensation Grannygear and I felt out at Interbike was still there for climbing. This bike climbs really well out of the saddle. I suspect the Brain is what gives it that hard tail feel and without it, it would feel like my old ’94 S-Works FSR which you didn’t dare get out of the saddle on during climbs. Kudos to Specialized and Fox for making that work so well. Is “having to have” the Brain a bad thing? I don’t think so. I know some folks do not like platform feeling systems, but if not for the vibration at times from the Brain when the platform opens up, which can be felt more than heard, you’d never know it was back there. And this only happens occasionally. Still, the vibration takes getting used to. Small nit for such a great benefit, really.
The frame felt solid. Not much flex here. It isn’t as stiff as say…..the Tall Boy, or Specialized’s own Stumpjumper Expert Carbon 29, which we are also reviewing, but it is pretty dang close. Torsionally it also gives up a little bit to the carbon rigs out there, but not much. The Epic Marathon 29 will probably suffice for all but the biggest, strongest mashers out there. Most folks probably won’t notice a thing is flexing. With the tapered steer tube, carbon steerer and crown on the Rock Shox, and the massive axle contact area of the Roval wheels much of the potential for flex is arrested.
Let’s get this out of the way right now, lest this becomes a review of SRAM XX instead of the bike. This drivetrain works great, but is sinfully expensive. There, I said it. I like the performance, the jury is still out on longevity, and it is flat out crazy spendy. Shifts under power were no issue at all. How much will it take? Well, I had the chain singing as it snapped over to another gear and the exchange was no slower than had I been soft pedalling. I don’t recommend anyone shift so indiscriminently, but in a pinch XX will pull off that shift. At least it did for me. Gearing-wise the 2X10 ratios were more than adequate for the area I ride.
In terms of climbing techy stuff the Epic Marathon did great. The suspension did a fine job of keeping the wheel in contact with the ground. Same with descending. The suspension did well here too. Once again, the proper set up is key. A little bit off and things were not as sweet. Although the Epic Marathon has respectable chain stay length for a full suspension rig, it still is a bit long-ish feeling and I attribute this to the slacker head angle. It keeps the Epic very stable in descents, but makes it a bit more of a chore in the tight twisties of the woods here. The set up isn’t bad, and for endurance racing, it might be the meal ticket a big wheeled racer needs to keep the rubber side down at 4:30am. It just isn’t “XC-rocket” kind of handling in tight single track.
So far I find the Epic Marathon a full suspension bike that seems to straddle the line between XC and Trail and has some confusing, blurred areas due to that. Tire clearance is generous if you stay below 2.3″ers, which is fine for XC, but isn’t really good enough for all out trail riding, in my opinion. The handling seems great for trail riding, but a bit too sluggish to be a XC single track carver. Same goes for weight. 26 plus pounds with SRAM XX and pretty light wheels? Some of the competition is building up lighter with far less expensive bits. I don’t know, but that weight, which is fine for a trail rig, is on the heavier end of the scale for XC, especially in light of where the competition is at this price point. That said, the Epic Marathon 29 does nail the endurance peg pretty well. I just have a hard time justifying the drivetrain expense here. Maybe an Epic Comp would be a better recommendation for endurance racing. But hey……if you’ve got the cash, this rig as it is spec’ed would be a fine ride for a 100 miler or 24hr gig.
Now for Grannygear’s First Impressions:
The Roval wheels are very nice looking and come with tape in place and valves in the packing to go tubeless. The front hub has a very large contact area in the hub/fork interface. With no 20mm or 15mm QR, the large flat area is designed to add stiffness and keep things steering straight ahead.
Tire clearance is reasonable for the bikes intended use, but likely not up to 2.3 tires on Flows, etc. This is a 2.0 Fasttrak.===>
I set the front fork and rear shock according to my weight. The rear shock comes with a cool little widget that measures the recommended amount of sag. I cranked the Brain control out past halfway so sag settings were not affected, adjusted the pressure, then turned it back to 4 turns out from full firm. I set the front fork to 110 positive and 100 negative and hit the trail.
It pedals really well as you would expect and with the fork locked out, it feels all the world like a hardtail. Neat. The road turned to dirt and the Brain began to do its thing. With a muted ‘clack’ that you can feel in the grips/pedals and slightly hear, the shock will activate on a bump and then firm back up again till it is needed. You can tune in a bit of harshness or open it up to be nearly trailbike plush as you desire.
Now, I have had a long time ‘vision’, if you will. It came about years ago when full suspension bikes became the norm and hardtails were pretty passe. I missed the solid feeling that a hardtail gives when you rise out of the saddle and pedal hard, like for a rise in the trail, but I was not willing to go backwards in comfort to get it. None of the DW/CVA/VPP bikes gave me the feeling I wanted although the JET-9 came really close. The Epic just nails it dead center. With the Brain doing its thing, the Epic shoots forward with a solid feeling that is even better than ProPedal, especially when a bump comes along and it is able to seamlessly respond and then go back to the firm feeling. That is very, very cool. The negative? The feel of that valve ‘clack’ releasing may bother some.
The rest of the ride was no big deal and the Epic felt a bit quicker than my pretty relaxed riding Leviathan 3.0 and reminded me a lot of the JET-9 I rode in this same area. It is very agile. However, one odd thing came up for the third time that had me puzzled. Every time I have ridden an Epic, I have experienced an odd feeling in the front end. It only happens when I am going downhill, brakes on, weight forward, with the front end compressed and turning at the same time. The first time at Sea Otter I almost crashed. I thought the tire went flat on me. The next time at Demo Days it was not so dramatic, but it was there once during the ride. Here it was again…third bike. Hmmm. I thought maybe the front wheel was flexing around, but grabbing it and twisting sure did not reveal anything odd. Then I noticed I was using nearly all the travel in the front fork just cruising around the streets, jumping off of curbs, etc. Odd because the sag seemed right. Thinking that I was experiencing some fork dive that was blowing through the travel as I shifted weight forward, I increased the pressure to 130/125 pos/neg to see if that helped. Pushing on the fork, it still seemed quite plush, so it perhaps this Reba is not quite like the classic Reba on my Lev.
Back at the barn and facing a longer ride, I swapped the fairly comfortable, but too racy for my butt, saddle for a well seasoned WTB Pure V. I added a snack bag on the top tube and waited for the ride day. The ride was a 5 hour loop with 8 miles of paved climbing, 9 miles of dirt fireroad climbing, some fast rollers up top, and then 7 miles of singletrack downhill. 5000′ of climbing, 30 miles. This is the type of ride that my Leviathan just excels at. I knew that the climb would be good, but would the Epic be up to the narrow, loose and rocky singletrack?
In a word, yes. Yes it was. It is more agile than my Lev, but it handled the rock steps and football sized boulders with no drama. I used all the travel in the rear end but I never was aware of any bottoming out. I am a smooth rider, so I was not just bombing it, but I never felt like I needed more travel. I bet this bike would be killer for stuff like the 24 hours of Moab. Oh, I never felt the odd front end dive thing on the ride, but I did sacrifice some small bump compliance with 130psi in the fork. I was still getting full travel though, and the less than completely plush feeling fork setting was a bit of a compliment to the platform feeling rear end. I did dial the Brain out one more click from firm before I dropped into the singletrack.
Testing will continue, but I think I have a pretty good feel for this bikes niche. This is not the bike that you contemplate, “will a 120mm fork work here?” This is not the bike where you ask, will a 2.4 tire fit the rear triangle?” This is not the bike where you post on your favorite forum, “I like to do 3 foot drops. Is this OK for the Epic?” This is the bike for your next 12 or 24 hour event if the hardtail is beating on you or the FS you are on feels a bit sluggish. It is the bike for covering huge miles and long days across varied terrain. It is squarely aimed at the endurance nut or the weekend warrior that does not require bigger travel and appreciates finesse and efficiency.
Is it a trailbike? It could be if your idea of a trailbike is a 3.0 Leviathan, a Racer X 29er, a JET-9, or anything in that area of performance. Beyond that, look at a Stumpjumper FSR 29er and enjoy the Brain on a longer travel, slacker angled bike.
What about pure XC racing? If your XC racing is rough enough, you could race this, but the Gary Fisher Superfly 100s are building up lighter and will likely grab that slot for a lot of folks. However, the aluminum frame of the Epic is likely more crash worthy if that appeals to you and the Brain makes the Superfly 100 feel squishy in comparison.
I also have some strong impressions of the XX group, 2×10 set-ups, and high budget bikes like this one. The Marathon is not a cheap bike. It is not even a moderately priced bike. The XX bits and the carbon Reba are spendy. It also seems to me that the weight of the bike is a bit high for the price and there are not too many places to shave ounces. 2×10 is interesting and I can see the appeal to racers. It shifts extremely well and the range is pretty good. Depending on your fitness and requirements for low gears, a 26/36 may or may not get it done. I have heard that the rear cassette is $350.00 to replace. Really? I don’t think so. Not this guy. I am an X9 with a smattering of XO sort for fellow. Or, if you prefer, XT with dabs of XTR. The cost of the components on the Marathon are pretty steep and will continue to be steep as they need to be replaced for wear and tear.
I would buy a Comp model for sure and take a weight hit. Or, if my budget allowed, buy the Marathon frame and fork and build it with a more traditional but light weight parts selection. But, if you want the top of the line parts and you are willing to write the check, or if you are sponsored, etc, XX seems to be very functional stuff even if it does dip into the kids college fund.
For now, the Epic looks like a winner, either in the high budget Marathon version or the more moderate Comp. It brings a new level of performance to the 29er world and it could be the bike that finally would replace that Leviathan 3.0 that for me has become a measuring stick for light and efficient FS 29ers.
Note: These products were provided to Twenty Nine Inches at no charge for reviewing. We are not being paid or bribed for this review. We will give our honest opinion or thoughts through out.
“the Brain makes the Superfly 100 feel squishy in comparison.”
GT- that’s kinda the what I’ve though some people were saying, but your the first to straight out say it.
Looks like I’m going to get a demo day chance at an Epic 29er here in the next week or so, so I’ll be eager to see if I agree with your comment. I hope so, because then the Epic Comp would be the perfect replacement for my HT. I’ve been saying that I don’t want to give up the climbing performance or the connected to the trail feeling that a HT offers. Sounds like the Epic just might be the ticket!
Hi, how would you compare the Epic and the Tallboy? XC, Marathon Performance and Fun, Trail riding?
thanks
@Nitrousjunky: By the way, that was a quote from Grannygear’s part of the review, but yeah, the Epic Marathon 29 is pretty hardtail like out of the saddle with the caveat that you have to have the Brain dialed to get that feeling.
@steph: My opinion is that the Tall Boy and Epic Marathon are very similar rigs in ride feel and handling. The Tall Boy has a possibility for going with a more trail-like set up with its 120mm fork option. I would say that the Epic is more “trail bike lite” and the Tall Boy covers that ground while being able to get into outright trail bike mode as well.
Either rig would peg the “fun meter” and both would be killer endurance rigs. My opinion. Hopefully Grannygear sees this and chimes in with his thoughts for you as well. 🙂
@nitrousjunky
I penned the comment on the Fly100, not that it matters too much, but just so GT does not get blamed for it! I do not see anything else being able to duplicate the exact feel of the Brain shock. I think that the JET9 approach was pretty close but I only had an hour on that bike and I never quite could get the combo of no-bob pedaling and bump compliance that I have seen on the Epic. Perhaps it was set-up issues with the Jet9….not sure. Regardless of that, the Epic is the closest thing to a HT feel when pedaling out of the saddle that I have experienced on an FS and it still moved on bumps when you needed it to.
I think if, for your area of riding, that you tend to sit and pedal, climbing over rough trails and ledges more than out of the saddle climbing on smoother or slightly rough surfaces, then the Brain may not be such a benefit. Just a thought.
@steph
Well, based on a rather quick ride at I-Bike, the Tall Boy strikes me as being able to do very well in the same conditions that the Epic excels in. But, I have the impression that the Tall Boy gets a bit closer to a ‘trail bike’ then the Epic. Now that may change as I hope to be on a Tall Boy soon. Things could get interesting.
grannygear
@Grannygear: Your paragraph #4 is exactly how I feel about this bike. You just can’t get this level of performance through linkage design alone. The clack doesn’t bother me as I don’t notice it when riding.
I also suspect this bike is getting a bad rep for its weight. I think the frame is probably in the neighborhood of 6lbs. As of late there are a couple more frames out there that weigh less (SF100, Tallboy), but up until recently, there weren’t many more than the Leviathan. Also, unfortunately, any potential weight savings are spread out among several components, there is no single component that is particularly heavy.
“The front hub has a very large contact area in the hub/fork interface. With no 20mm or 15mm QR, the large flat area is designed to add stiffness and keep things steering straight ahead.”
GG, how did that work out? I’m 6’4″ and 220lbs. and found switching to the 15QR a major benefit.
Great first impressions and thanks for the honesty.
@Bob
Well, I will tell Bob…I think it is much better than I would have expected it to be. Putting the wheel between your knees and grabbing the bar (facing from the front of the bike) and twisting can show what is going on torsionally…maybe not laboratory accurate, but it is what it is and it takes things out of the equation like tire pressure and spoke tension for the most part.
I did this on a 26″ bike with an XT wheelset and a Fox fork (5mmQR) and I was amazed at how twisty it was. I could see the movement at the hub-axle-dropout area.
Doing the same with the Epic is pretty stout feeling. I cannot say how much the tapered, carbon steerer is a part of it, but the package as a whole feels and looks very stiff when twisted up like I described. In fact, it seems to be every bit as stiff as the Giant XTC 29er-1 with the Fox 15mmQR. I imagine that, if you could measure the difference, that the 15mmQR is a stiffer interface, but that is just speculation.
I am still not a fan of the Roval half radial-half crossover lacing pattern on the front wheel, but I cannot fault it so far.
A couple more items…At Sea Otter, Specialized had a set of fork lowers with no brace in between them so they were able to move independent of each other. One had a normal hub in it, one a Roval with the 28MM hub face. Both were clamped with a 5mmQR. If you took the fork lowers in both hands and tried to push them together or pull them apart, the difference was dramatic with the Roval hub. It was MUUUUCH ‘stiffer’ in that regard.
Also, this is nothin’ new, just forgotten I guess. I remember back in the 90s that there was hub that claimed this as a design feature but I have forgotten who’s it was. It may have even been a Specialized hub.
grannygear
It was Specialized’s Skraxle hub/quick release.
Thanks for the in-depth Grannygear! Sounds impressive. If I get one, it will be the Comp as the Marathon’s a bit rich for me. The Comp has:
Specialized Hi Lo disc, CNC flange, sealed cartridge bearing, oversized end caps, 9mm DT RWS, alloy QR, 28h.
So it should be pretty stiff as well.
How does it stack up compared 2 a Pivot ?
@DJ
Well, that is a bit hard to say for me as I only have about 45 minutes of riding on a Pivot 429 in late 2008. That is a lot of time between rides to compare, so I will not speculate…that would not be fair.
grannygear
Thanks for the review!, have been waiting for this one for a while!
Superfly-Tallboy-Epic 29er …
I’ve done short test rides on the Fly and 29 Epic, and have to agree, there fly feels squishy in comparison… and that is my biggest point for the Epic. I love the weight, geometry and Fox Fork on the Fly 100.
If the rumored 29″ Carbon Epic FS is in the works, it may be worth waiting an extra year to start riding big wheels… if they bring it an Expert Carbon level bike around $4k… $6-$7k is getting silly…. seriously….
Looking forward to the next update!
@Grannygear
Here in my area (WNC) we have a lot of both. I ride in Dupont State Forest most of the time. Which has most smooth, flowy singletrack. A lot of the climbs are smooth, slightly rough. There are some rooty and rocky stair steep climbs. I sit on the not so steep climbs and stand on the techy & steep climbs (standing more since I started riding a rigid/ss also last year).
The other end of the spectrum is Pisgah National Forest, where it can get gnarly quick, yet still have some smooth long climbs. Very rooty and rocky on a lot of the trails.
I prefer the ride of my HT 29er over the 26 FS bikes I’ve owned. Especially on the climbs, where it doesn’t feel like the suspension is stealing 40% of my effort. One thing I also like about the HT is the more connected to the trail feeling. I love my G2 HT, but on those rooty, long rides I could use a little more comfort.
@nitrousjunky
I can’t think of one single time I have felt the Epic stealing anything from me due to the fact it has a rear shock. Is it as good-pure-direct a feeling as my SS Jabberwocky? No. There is still something about not having the pivots and shock etc that never quite feels like a true hardtail (especially a singlespeed…hard to beat the efficiency there).
But, the Epic comes closer to that hardtail feel then any other FS I have tried and yet it still lets you get all the travel the shock will allow when called upon.
I was just thinking that, if I spent a lot of time seated, in a small gear, working my way up ledges, roots, etc, the DW link bikes seem to be really good in that mode. But that is not my style or local terrain.
I first thought that the Epic is a fabulous endurance racing-riding/medium duty trail bike and so far nothing has changed that perception. Any niggling issues I have had have been around components and mostly reflect personal bias. The basic bike still continues to impress.
grannygear
For those interested, I asked Spec if the Comp hubs could be converted to 15 or 20mm and if a Fox fork could be used:
Bob,
That bike does have the capabilities of running a Fox fork, an adapter would be needed that you can order through a Specialized dealer.
Unfortunately the hubs are not compatible and a different hub would have to be used.
Thanks
Cody
Specialized Online Store Customer Service
From what I have read, the Marathon hubs on the Roval Control EL 29 wheelset are convertible with end cap changes to 15mm and 20mm. Good info on the Comp, though. Thanks.
grannygear
Torn between the Epic Comp and the Stumpjumper FS 29er Expert. I do a few 6 and 12 hour races a year and would like to do more. Currently riding a SJ 29er FS and like the handling, but would like more efficiency from the rear susp for climbing out of the saddle. Propedal works well for all but hard efforts on steep climbs.
Am wondering if the brain on the SJ is tuned to firm up as much as the Epic is. If you can dial in enough brain on the rear of the SJ, then it would make for a really versatile bike. The extra travel would be fun for general trail use.
Did you get a chance to ride the SJ – would be good to hear a comparison between the two.
@sthrnfat: No- We didn’t get a ride on the Stumpy FS rig. It might happen that Twenty Nine Inches will do a review on that bike, so stay tuned….
great review guys… perhaps one of your best ever. keep up the good work. i read it with great interest from end-to-end. the epic marathon 29 is definitely one of the most anticipated new 29 inch off road bikes this season for a number of reasons, but its value proposition is definitely a tough one to stomach for most folks. it’s a “halo” product that definitely offers premium performance, but it demands a premium price to achieve it. in that respect, specialized is doing the same thing trek, cannondale and all other top manufacturers are doing. to be considered an “a-level” company, they have to build “a-level” bikes, cost be damned. read the mission statement of s-works. it’s right there. you have to respect a company that has the guts to put the cubic dollars out there and say with confidence “our bikes are worth an insanely large sum of money, because they’ll deliver a world class level of performance.” not many companies can say that, and it’s worth something.
there’s also a cost of innovation. sram is pushing the drivetrain envelope… shimano used to be the ones that were really pushing it, now it’s sram that’s taken up the charge. i can’t believe i’m saying this, but to a certain extent, i think we need to support the fact that they’re pushing the envelope and giving us better, lighter, cooler parts. because even though an xx cassette costs $350 now, you know that technology is going to be fodder for the x-9 group at some point. it trickles down… and eventually we’ll all benefit. there’s just always a cost for early adopters, and for them, well… they get to ride the cool stuff. and that’s as it should be, because they paid the price. or they’re fast guys, and that’s worth something too (as a few readers know).
so while yesterday i was actually not really on-board with the $350 xx cassette, i’m actually starting to warm up to the whole concept of it… because you know, this is our sport, and the folks at sram, fox and specialized obviously care an awfully lot about it if they’re going to those lengths to develop that cool of stuff for us to ride. it’s pretty cool…
Hi Guys,
Well, I decided to go all in. Worked a trade with my LBS on my 08 Trance for an Epic Comp 29er. This will be my first 29er, sight unseen, no test ride, gulp! A little trepidation but looking forward to it. I’m 6’4″ and there is just too much compelling info out there that 29er is the way to go. I had an Epic the first year they came out and the brain was pretty choppy back then. Sounds like they have improved it lots and also with large volume, tubeless tires at low pressure and 29er wheels I know it will be much smoother. Loved my Trance except for standing climbing. Had an eye-opening ride with one of my buddies on a hardtail SS and he was just leaving me on the climbs (short non-technical grunters around here). The only thing I’m worried about on the 29er is can I still hit the little jumps in the trail, the Trance loves those. Epic won’t be here till Feb, but my shop is letting me ride my Trance until then.
Thanks for the in-depth reviews, it really helped with my decision. I really think we will see alot of 29ers in the pro racing ranks next season after the succes of the Fisher squad and also the Specialized riders last season. Should be an interesting year!
Cheers,
Bob
Thanks for the great first review! Does the frame fit the narrower 156mm Q-factor XX cranks or does it run the 166mm set?
Thanks
@Johnny5- My large Marathon came with the 156mm Q factor XX cranks
I have no reference since I am a skinny tire guy (Triathlete). I bought a Epic Comp 29 for a 24hr event and some trail riding/camping down in the great southwest.
Well the bike arrived Monday and I took a test lap on Wednesday and raced on Saturday/Sunday. The Bike worked great, I was turning 1:09 laps Pro’s were turning 55 or so. I had never ridden a mountain bike in anything like it.
The bike handled terrain that my P-4 just could not! Ha! Ha!
The bike is simply everything it is advertised to be, I bought it on Conrad’s recommendation at Wildflower, He was right. It has the same frame as the $$$ Marathon so for a beginner I think I should wear this one out first and then the carbon FS 29’ers should be out or maybe Cervelo will make one.