Twenty Nine Inches has just taken delivery of a complete 2011 Shimano Dyna Sys 10 speed mtb group. This suite of parts, (and SRAM’s XX group), herald a new age in mountain biking- namely the 10 speed era. We are skeptical, but so far SRAM’s XX seems to have won our hearts in terms of performance, (not so much in terms of value). Will Dyna Sys XT 10 speed perform as well, or better? Will it be a better value? And what the heck is up with that gearing! These questions and more are what we will be trying to answer as we ride the latest offering in Shimano’s storied XT group.
Note: Shimano supplied this group free of charge. We are not being bribed or paid for this review. We will strive to give our honest opinions throughout.
When are they finally going to release a crankset / front shifter with 4 chainrings? Use some downhill spacing on a 68mm bottom bracket, it’s possible.
Think about it, we could have a 4×11 soon enough! Maybe we could try to overlap every single gear so you are never in the wrong chainring!
I understand that with every release of 1 more rear cog in MTB there are the naysayers and people who joke about having too many gears. Old news. But this is getting a little cartoonish, right? Pretty soon the rogue singles-speeders are going to have to turn into zero-speeders, or negative-one speeders, or something.
At long last!!!! XT “value”=msrp(?) Prices and weights would be great……
My lbs mechanic said that XX has to be set up exactly for it to work. Reminds me of XTR dual control when it came out. A expensive mistake on my part. It worked well, on dry, non-dusty trail. GT – do us a favor and run this stuff through some muck.
It will be interesting. I was one of those guys who smugly stuck with 8-speed when 9 first arrived, due mostly to a few strong friends breaking chains. When I switched to 9 about 3 years ago, imagine my surprise to find much better-quality rear shifting!
Sure, rear der trim is a bit more finicky, but if you can’t give the barrel adjuster on your shifter a quick half-twist once in a while, its time for a new sport.
I have high hopes. XTR Race 2×10 180mm crankset with XO shifters and X9 (maybe XO if not too $) rear derailleur and cassette – sweet. X9, although the shifting is not silky smooth, just works. I agree, the barrel adjuster is great for tweaking the rear derailleur after a encounter with a stick or just retuning stretched cables.
Keeping the 3 ring option is smart. But not offering a 2 ring XT crank is stupid.
I agree, dman. No 2 ring XT is a major fail.
Garbage. There is no need for that many gears in the back for MTB. Road, yes. 9 speed is already pushing it.
So no XT 2×10? Or have they just not announced it yet? Strange move if they don’t offer 2×10 at the XT level given what SRAM is doing.
Joel…That’s what I’m hoping….That they just haven’t announced it yet. Although, I’m still sold on 2×9 with the proper gear choices. I also hear that the 10spd chains are going to be insanely priced.
M$RP-?
With regard to the XT 2×10, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a year away since the XT crank is probably due for a re-design anyway.
Thanks everyone for the comments!
I have an e-mail in to Shimano on some of your questions. They have temporarily answered to say they will answer. 🙂
As soon as I get a reply, I will post up regarding the crank selection and MSRP’s I have weights that I have taken of each component as well which I will list in the next posting. Thanks again everyone for the comments!
I was a big fan when I swapped from a road triple to a compact double. I would be keen to do the same for the mtb. Was happy with the swap from 9 to 10 speed but have always been unhappy with the chain life on the narrower 10sp chain. The thing that 10speed gives you is not a bigger range but closer spacing.
I have a bit of a conspiracy theory that the manufacturers want to go to 10 speed not for any performance benefits but to be able to sell more chains.
I want to go to 1X10 next year with that 36T Cassette.
They will not be making an double XT crank in 2010.
The concept behind the new XT is pretty well explained here:
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/dynasys.html
The idea is that with the 3 rings closer together in size, you can maintain a steady cadence when you shift between rings. I have ridden it and it works.
Sram is doing the opposite with 2 rings. Having ridden both, shimano’s concept is better in regard to the ability to shift rings up front and maintain a constant cadence.
The shifting is familiar and very shimano-like.
If you like 9 speed shimano stuff, you will like this. If you prefer Sram 9 speed stuff, you will most likely prefer the Sram 10 speed stuff.
Either way you better be ready for 10 speed cassettes since they will be the only game in town a year from now.
If the “concept” is better front shifting, when why does the new XTR stuff come with 2 and 3 ring options?
What are they called, XC and Race?
But I am for anything that improves front shifting(the weakest point of any drivetrain, IMHO).
@jdog: To be fair, Shimano is also doing 2X10 (XTR) and it is also a very similar concept to SRAM’s. Not only that, but SRAM is also offering a 3X10, but they are using a “traditional” 22/32/42.
@Willie: Shimano is seeing XTR as a “Trail” and “Race” group, offering double ring set ups that will (in their view) will be ideal set ups, gearing-wise, for either the racer or the trail rider looking for a lightweight, high performance offering. Shimano folks made a point that most trail riders use the 32 tooth ring for most of their riding. They also noted that lots of trail riders were dumping their big rings in favor of 2 X 9 set ups that reflected their desire for clearance and for what rings they normally used anyway, (granny and middle). Furthermore, in the Pro ranks, they noted many Pro racers were starting to show up to the line using 2 X 9 set ups as well. Although these racers were tending to use bigger combinations than the trail riders were.
That’s why their are XTR “Race” and XTR “Trail” set ups with brakes to match.
XT is being seen as the group it has always been seen as: The all around mountain biking group. This may be why the 2X isn’t being featured here. I do know that the SLX group will continue to have a 2X option, but again, that is aimed at the folks already having no need for a big ring.
Hopefully my Shimano contact will respond with answers soon so we can ferret out the philosophy behind the decisions here.
Come on, rich roadies have 11 cogs right now. Until I can rock a 3 X 11 setup I don’t think we’re “there” yet.
“There” being a place where you best carry a spare chain.
Who in their right mind wants a steady cadance with varying speeds? Lack of it amkes singlespeed so hard to beat…
When I ran 2×9 (to save the 20g of the small ring, haha!) in my days, I just used a 107mm BB with a standard Shimano XT crank, and it was the best one could wish for. Only a 30g chain guide would have improve that, so I put back the small ring, just not reached by thye derailer in normal shifting.
1×10 spd with 11-36 would right pretty nicely I’m sure. A standard 3-ring crankset with middle ring does the trick.
So we get 10 speeds 36T what abput XT/XTR 9 speeds 12-36?
agree with Cloxxki. 1×10 w/ a 36t seems like the drivetrain I’ve been waiting for.
Currently on a 2×9 (26, 36, 34 cog) and want to move to 1 up front but I just don’t have the legs.
How about an XT level 9sp. w/ a 36 tooth cog? I know there is the Deore level. Anyone hear of this?
How much longer will Shimano and SRAM continue to produce 9spd stuff, for those who just need to replace worn parts here and there but don’t want to buy a new system.
Also, can you discuss compatibility? For example, could I buy a 10spd cassette and shifter and use it with my 9spd derailleur? I’m guessing the answer is no….
On a slightly unrelated note, I know of at least one person using a SRAM X0 9spd rear end and an XX crank/FD and gripshifters for all of it. Works well. He gets the better shifting up front, but can still use the gripshifters he likes. I’m not sure what chain he’s using.
10 speed chain durability/performance: Best investment I have ever made in components was upgrading to a KMC Gold chain for my 9 speed mtb, and 10 speed roadbike. I had a nine speed Gold chain I used for a year on my MTB and it shifted flawless up to the day I replaced it. Cost $85 Value of never having a drive train issue: Priceless
I Used that same nine speed chain to replace my single speed chain and have ridden it for 6 months single speed without issue. Im no small fry at 6’4″ 220 so I know they hold up.
I have 6,000 miles on my Road KMC gold chain and it still shifts flawless. I might sound like a comercial for KMC but I have snapped every other chain type on the market, and I can honestly says KMC lives up to the hype and the price.
Since we’re talking chains. My experience with 10 speed chains has been Shimano Ultegra level (it wore really fast) and Wippermann (their base 10 speed chain). The Wippermann has tripled the mileage of the Shimano. I have used Wippermanns for the last few years on my 9s mountain stuff and I think they rock for $35-65.
I am not optimistic about a 10s mountain chain ever being both durable and affordable. 10 speed will drive cassette and chain prices a lot higher again.
For racing only. While tril riding or general meandering we use bigger leaps. I do not neccessitate 1 or 2 teeth steps on 10 speed. I;ll shift two or three cogs then. Would rather have 36 9 speed XTR and XT.
If you can get a better range and less weight (read: cassette) it will appeal to trail monkeys and racers alike.
same xxxx different day, more hype, more marketing, more money made.
I have the XTR dynasys as it came on my bike, there really is not significant technical advantage to earlier XTR groups. In fact this one looks cheaply made compared to previous versions….
@konst: Hmm…..really? I just looked at XTR up close and personal today, and it looks great. Plus, if you can not see the advantages in terms of the brakes, pedals, and the philosophy behind the gearing, well, then you are free to ignore that. To my mind it is quite obvious that there have been improvements.
To each their own, eh? 😉
hey Ted, perhaps on reflection, instead of just slagging of xtr and dynasys i should have been a bit more specific, so let me explain. I have been using XTR since the early 90s, back then they used to be beautifully polished shifters and brakes etc.
No question some of the parts look fantastic, the crank is a thing of beauty, as it should be at this price. But i expect more from the front derailleur, which from what i can tell without disassembly is injection moulded plastic (with a probably production cost of a few pennies). The shifters come with great fittings, but have more cheap plastic levers, and fairly roughly finished die cast bodies, and just don’t convey the feeling of quality i expect at this price point (no I dont know if the competition looks better). I cannot comment on the brakes as i use Avid’s.
I also think that for 90% of users the extra gear probably will be of little relevance, I understand the philosophy, but is it really as big as it is hyped. The quality of shifting is good, but it has been with all versions of xt/xtr, there just does not seem to be an improvement here, if improvement is even possible…..
I don’t want to put anyones nose out of joint, and as you said, “to each their own”.
@Konst: A reasoned response is always read with a more open mind. 😉 Thanks for chiming back with that comment.
I can certainly agree with you now at a few points. I agree that Shimano, (primarily a forging company, let us not forget 😉 ), is not living up to expectations in regards to XTR’s finish and feel. I can see plastic here and there, and those bits should be polished, anodized aluminum, (or carbon fiber).
The front shifting does lag behind SRAM’s bar raising XX front changer.
I will say that I do appreciate the closer ratios in the middle of the cassette, and that for me, the 36T cog keeps me out of the granny gear more often than not. So, for 29″er riders, where momentum conservation is key, the closer ratios and not needing to dump into the granny are improvements if the rider can take advantage of those benefits. Not everyone will understand that, and/or be able to use that, but it is there.