SANTA CRUZ Tallboy LTc – Quick Test: by c_g
Here at twentynieninches Europe we really get to ride many different bikes each year, but rarely was I so full of anticipation about a test bike than with the SANTA CRUZ Tallboy LTc. After the brief taste through the quick-test of the SC Tallboy (here) it was evident to me what an exciting bike Tallboy LT could be … if it managed to maintain the same ride character. We had been fortunate to receive the first existing Tallboy LTc in Germany for this short test.
For all technical innovations and features of the Tallboy LT series with 135 mm of travel on the rear, I you should go to the earlier post on the introduction of the Tallboy LT posted here.
Visually, the Tallboy LT clearly is the big brother of the former Tallboy. Would it not be for the 142/12 rear axle and the down tube shock mount (instead of the top tube mount of the Tallboy), they could almost be mistaken for one another. I really like those flowing lines of the bike.
Our yellow carbon frame (SANTA CRUZ aptly calls it “Solar Yellow”) come with a component kit dubbed “SPXAM29” – which translates into a complete XT drive train (3×10) and brakes (180 front /160 rear!), Fox Float F34 CTD Factory 29″er fork and RP23 Factory shock (the production bikes will come with the new 2013 CTD Factory shock), DT-Swiss hubs / WTB Frequency i23 rims and Maxxis Ardent tires. While one can argue with the tire choice (for our varying conditions, the Ardent isn´t one of my favorites), the XT brakes with 180 mm front and 160 mm rear definitely are undersized for what this bike deserves! Unusual by modern standards (but welcome from our point of view), were the external cable routing and the BSA bottom bracket. 
By this build it is obvious that the bike wouldn’t end up super light in spite of the extremely light frame (SANTA CRUZ claims 2355 grams for the full carbon frame of the LTc) – our scale read 12.85 kg (w/o pedals). The LT alloy frame is stated at 3250 g. Since we also wanted to close the test on the Reynolds MT29″er Carbon wheels (the report is published here), I have left the original wheels untouched and mounted the carbon-REYNOLDS (with CONTINENTAL Mountain King IIs) … which immediately shaved off 750 g.
The frame is available as a kit with the shock for USD 2698.- (€ 3299.- here in Europe) or USD 6078.- (€ 6699.-) for the complete bike as tested. There are multiple built kits available for your personal dream bike.
Yes, bargains do look differently – but what you get is a very enigmatic bike with an state-of-the-art carbon frame. If you look for a more budget bike with identical technology (only with a quick release rear) go for the alloy version of the Tallboy LT.
But now the RIDING IMPRESSIONS of the SANTA CRUZ Tallboy LTc:
We have had the SANTA CRUZ Tallboy LTc for about 2 ½ weeks and rode it a lot in that time – the testing took place on our usual trails on which we ride every bike, but also some really hot alpine trails. The test fell into a time with a short trip to Switzerland and we gladly took the opportunity to gather more experiences on the LTc.
And here are the compiled ride impressions from local and alpine trails:
HANDLING: If you know the SANTA CRUZ Tallboy (100 mm) and like it, you will not be disappointed by the Tallboy LT – it retains much of its agile handling and terrific central seating position. Unlike some of the long-travel 29″er bikes we have ridden, the LT managed to hold on to most of its playfulness and is a lot of fun even on tight trails. Granted, the LT is a bit more stable (due to the slacker head angle and longer wheelbase), which helps keeping up the confidence in tricky or very fast sections, but as far as handling is concerned the Tallboy LT is an extremely fun trail bike in (almost) everything.
Another awesome trait is the super precise handling – one of my home trails includes a stream crossing on a 4 inch wide log, where I always dismounted … but the Tallboy LT felt so precise, that for the first time I have ridden it in both directions. As little as this may tell you – for me this is a great compliment to the rigidity and steering precision of the frame which is further assisted by the Fox F34 Float.
SUSPENSION PERFORMANCE:
SANTA CRUZ (http://www.santacruzmtb.com) is a free thinking company and the suspension of the Tallboy has always been combining efficiency and capability with a character of its own … and the LT with its increased travel (135 mm) takes that even further. Subjectively the suspension feels almost „endless“. This is mainly due to the very linear mid-stroke and late progressive end stroke. The LT is not very small bump sensitive, although it definitely is more sensitive than its “little brother” but once the trail moves beyond cat litter the Tallboy wakes up big time! All medium and large obstacles literally disappear but not without a very good amount of trail feedback, which to me is a must for all long travel bikes … on rough, blocky trails and downhills the SANTA CRUZ Tallboy LT for me is one of the best 29″er full-suspension bikes, I know – regardless if it is on fast and flowing or technical and twisty trails. The gentle progression in the end stroke effectively keeps the rear from bottoming out which I was able to prove in Lenzerheide Bike Park by big jumps and up to 8 ft drops – brilliant how the bike handled this terrain even though it wasn´t entirely at home there ;).
The suspension action of the Tallboy LT belongs to the category that I would describe as „noticeable“ – not like other bikes, that „somehow disappear“ under the rider. It is hard to put into words, but this is my best way of telling it and while I usually prefer the latter kind, in the Tallboy it has given me such a fun ride, that I really loved it.
Everything perfect in paradise? Not everything, because the Tallboy LT is no fan of out of the saddle climbing (the maximum platform damping helps to calm it down to a good level) and its VPP suspension is clearly optimized for middle ring riding. There it pedals and climbs pretty neutral, but the granny ring induces some real world kickback. Fortunately this is only noticeable only when climbing extremely steep things and in slow cadence, specifically on smooth surfaces – as such it was very little distracting on my gnarly home trails, but very much so on the epic alpine climbs. I have discussed this with a SANTA CRUZ engineer (thanks for your time Nick ) and the refreshingly open answer was that this compromise for the granny gear had been allowed in order to get the very most trail performance out of the suspension … and by the great ride I tend to agree.
Moderately steep uphills, regardless if they are smooth, loose or gnarly, are handled rather well by the Tallboy LT – it is only the super steep climbs where it behaves awkwardly. On rough trails the pedal kickback is there, but strangely it bugged me on some rides and on others I felt it to even assist in finding just the right amount of pedal pressure.
COMPONENT SPEC: Although the frame has been clearly the focus of the test, here are a few words about the specs of the test bikes. For standard hilly terrain. Like I have at home all was great, without any complaints … maybe a little heavy for what I´d put on this frame. But on the alpine slopes of Switzerland with seemingly endless descents the strong XT brake system with 180/160 discs were running clearly short of the bike´s potential – here I´d recommend at least a 180/180 combination if not larger rotors. Another thing I would have liked for the long climbs were a travel adjustable fork (as offered in other trim levels of the LT) … oh and a dropper seat post should come standard on this bike. As it is this criticism is directed more to the specific test configuration than the bike in general, for you to consider when ordering.
QUICK TEST RESULT: The Tallboy LTc as tested is one of the best 29″er trail bikes we know. The geometry and riding position is almost perfect, and allows an agile, active riding style as well as in the well known „unstoppable roll over everything“ riding style. Then there are the very direct handling and great precision … rarely did we have so much fun on different trails and downhills (on any long travel 29″er full suspension bike) than on the Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc.
The rear end makes sensational use of the 135 mm of travel and even in this aspect the Tallboy LTc has the potential for one of the best trail bikes. Only the pedal kickback in the small chain ring does affect the otherwise perfect performance of the bike. To me the Tallboy lt would be a prime candidate for the XX1 group with a 30 front ring. So if you are a climber, loving to pedal up anything, no matter how steep, then the Tallboy LT may not be what you want, but if the general trail performance is more important and/or you ride most in the middle chain ring anyway or rarely fail to keep a decent cadence in the granny (as opposed to mashing in the granny) then you will need to search high and low for a better bike than the Tallboy LT. Our verdict – that SANTA CRUZ Tallboy LTc combines an ultra-modern, and very light frame with an ingenious Trail 29″er geometry and brilliant performance. For me, the only compromise is in then uphills in extremely steep stuff (you don´t have to ride everything, do you ;)) and in the spec of our test bike that doesn´t meet the bike´s potential completely.
RIDE ON,
c_g
EXTRA NOTE: Just when I was about to file this report on the Tallboy LTc, I got the option to ride the LTa (in almost the identical spec – only with a 2013 CTD shock) for a few days … and aside the 800 g of weight increase, this bike was just as much fun to ride – a awesome trail bike, that only compromises in (extremely steep) uphills.
Is this going to be continued? I don’t seem to have walked away with much info, besides knowing that you thought it was very fun, thought it was similar to the Tallboy in certain ways, and the pedal feedback in the granny gear made climbing “extreme” steeps awkward.
I’m left with little context to make sense of why it was fun. You say 142×12, carbon, its geo, and suspension design help. What if I knew little of how that stuff works and never rode a Tallboy (I have, but many others haven’t)?
Good stuff- thanks c_g! One question- in terms of rear tire clearance, is it noticably better than the regular Tallboy?
I’m glad that this has been released, I love my Tallboy but I feel I could do with more travel, especially for doing enduro events! This would be a perfect all mountain bike for me(the alu version)
Johny
@Me: Thank you. The Tallboy I rode had MAXXIS Ardents 2.25 mounted with no issues of clearance – I never tried any other tires, but it never stuck out to mee as tight. Just checked my pics but unfortunately have none that help any further, so I cannot really comment.
On the LTc I ran the SCHWALBE Hans Dampf 2.35 as the widest tires I have and still had plenty of room to spare. For this bike I can confirm that there is plenty room for any tire, I would ride there.
c_g
Is anyone else wishing this bike had a water bottle cage? I hate hydration packs and I would never consider buying a bike unless it has at least one bottle cage mount. I’m guessing most people will want to ride it for more than 30 minutes. I don’t doubt its a nice bike but come on Santa Cruz!!
@ James Goering: Yep, not much room inside that main triangle for a water bottle. But there is a provision to mount at least one water bottle underneath the down tube (you can see one screw on the pic of the BB area). For sure not a perfect place, but at least one could :-).
I haven´t been using water bottles for at least a decade – I got tired o constantly loosing them on rough trails and have been using a reservoir in my pack ever since.
No WB provision? Hmmmm…my last ride I had 100oz in the pack and three WBs and still needed to refill mid ride. I could not do away with at least one place to rotate bottles through.
gg
lack of a proper water bottle cage is something that both the Santa Cruz and Yeti SB95 force us to accept if we want their rear end suspension systems.
I would be intrigued to see how this will compare with the SB95c when it is released as they seem to target exactly the same rider.
I rode a SB95 alu recently and found the Fox 34 absolutely fantastic. I have hated Fox forks for quite some time as they just didnt offer all their travel and lost their ability to tune in their old plushness. The 34 seems to be a completely different fork – not just a fork with larger staunchions.
But the question is: the Yeti has increadible small bump compliance and very good square edge/blocky terrain soaking abilities. It could use all its travel on big drops without any sharp progressive finish to its shock travel but also no need for lots of rebound as it didnt wallow.
It too isnt very sharp out of the saddle but definitely better than say a Trek. It also had a fair degree of funky ‘kickback’ through the drivetrain on steep and technical climbs in the small front chainring.
seems similar indeed but perhaps Yeti have gotten the initial compliance dialled a little better on their shock rate curve.
those of us who are keen on a play bike like this – gg, I dont see it as an enduro xc bike but a 11.5kg version could be raced as such i can imagine – would love to see some type of comparo like this – perhaps with a stumpy fsr in the mix as well and even a rumblefish.
i know it might not be TNI thing but if possible..please please !!
@Professed…yeah, I realize that this will not be an endurance bike for most folks, but the 120mm bikes like the SB95…well that makes for a darn good all day expedition bike in rough country, would you not agree? Yes, hardly a race bike (unless you like Enduros, maybe?), but certainly an all day heavy trail bike.
I still like having at least 1 WB boss on something that will not be shuttled all day. The FSR we have long term has one.
Just my bias!
You know, we would love to be able to pull off comparos like that, but if you knew how hard it was to get a single bike for test and be sure of the timing, then to line-up three at the same time? Oh man. If I had money for every bike I was promised for review but never saw, I would be richer and we would all be VERY busy…like we are not already busy.
gg
There is always the option of fitting a bottle cage to the seat post. Not optimal, but it works.
Water bottles are for roadies.
@Simenf…not with a dropper post and the type of bike will almost certainly have one installed. Water bottles are for cyclists.
gg
Ok, a couple more questions:
1. Perhaps I missed it, but what size frame c_g?
2. If you had a regular Tallboy, would you see this as a worthy upgrade?? Was it a significantly different/enjoyable ride?
Professed, the answer for you could be the Cube Stereo 29er? Geo looks a bit avant garde, even moreso than the SB-95 that you like, and far more avant than this LTc.
The biggest thing from the SB-95 I haven’t found matched yet by another bike is the balanced fit of the bike, with how the front end is so dialed and the bar height is just right, especially for those not 5′ 10″ or taller. The short head tube, higher BB, slacker than considered ideal SA, short ETT, ~70mm stem, 711mm bars, slack HA and 120mm fork all all combine for that magic fit as soon as you get on it.
It looks sweet too, and its stiffness and geo gives incredible confidence, and quality/smoothness of the suspension is just luxurious. Too bad it weighs so much and only has 1 water bottle mount. If they had a carbon version already, I bet it would make a really strong competitor vs the LTc, even if Yeti made the frame to be north of 6 lbs still.
The low weight and personality that the TB LTc features seem rather compelling. Only now looked up what TNI’s quick test is. I guess there’s no continuation, except maybe clarification and additional info in these comments. Ain’t much of a review. Might make someone want to ride one, but doesn’t seem like anything I could use to compare to other bikes.
There has to be more of a catch to the LTc’s “fun” XC/trail personality though. All the bikes I’ve ridden that had some personality had some catch, like being nervous at low speed, pedal strikes, proprietary parts, being kind of bad at switch backs, kind of nervous feeling in the air, kind of nervous feeling when on the brakes, noisy/creaks, drivetrain issues like ghost shifting from flex and chain suck, etc. What issues are you holding back c_g?
Adding on to my last paragraph regarding issues being held back:
Anything personal like saddle sore coming sooner, wrist issues, back issues, neck issues, or whatever? Does its rider positioning feel well centered? Upright or stretched? Does it make it easy to look far ahead or do you find yourself still looking down? Do you feel like making your rides longer or slower lately? Are you hucking off of things faster? Is your favorite local loop done with significantly less effort? Does it leave you excited to want to ride again, or reluctant to end a ride? Does it feel lofty, wanting to get its wheels off the ground? Does it make you want to take harder lines? Do you feel comfortable riding fast and tight singletrack, able to stay on course easily, or ride between ruts or ride inside of ruts easily?
Wish for anything to change? Change anything yourself besides the tires? Like anything about the stock spec? Dislike any of it? Revelation vs Fox 34?
What about the AL version? 1 line about that is not enough. That $800 difference from AL to carbon is some serious money, but if the ride is just as stiff, smooth, and fun, just heavier, those who don’t mind extra weight would be interested in knowing. The performance of the AL version could be better compared to AL framed competitors as well, and if you say the AL version is no worse, people who think another AL bike is better than the AL version may feel the same way about that bike vs the carbon version.
Not really satisfied just hearing 142×12 and that it’s fun, as you could just be excited by a bike with some expectations and had more endorphins flowing as a response. When looking at LTc owner threads on mtbr.com, comparing to owner threads to other bikes, it seems people don’t use many details to describe their LTc in comparison. Seems more like a show off thread for douches and bike snobs, and I’m hoping there’s more to the bike.
@ Me:
to 1, You are right, I accidently left out that info – it has been a size L for both the LTc and the LTa.
to 2, I think the LT takes all the Talboy´s charactersitics a bit further into the “trail direction”. The Tallboy already in its core is a “fun handling Trailsurfer” the minor issues in pedal kickback and out of the saddle climbing … the LT is very similar in character, only all is exaggerated – the positive and the negative. Measured by that core character I like the LT better.
@ Missed the point: Sorry you missed the point … have you really read the “Quick-review?.
But indeed there is another catch (besides the stated tires, rotor dimensions, missing dropper post, heavy spec for the frame, pedal kickback on steep climbs, elevated pricing, ….): The frame has a lot of chain slapping against the chain stays when ridden hard.
Interesting comments about the lack of a waterbottle mount. I have just brought a 2012-2013 Tallboy c and there is provision to mount 2 bottles on the frame. The best feature I find on this bike is its balance and ability to corner climbing up & down hills ranging to 20 deg slopes. Its a heck of a lot easier to lift over fences than my old alloy 29er, well done Santa Cruz.
New to this site but not to bikes. I’ve a lot of complaints about bike w/o room for water bottles. Would you rather have a water bottle cage or a sick bike. Water bottles get really nasty in dry dusty conditons, ( I live in California 6-8 months a year of this but it’s also sunny equally :-). Plus you never know what kind of poop on the trails is going to fly up on your bottle. Unless I’m going for a quick spin, I need to carry water, tools, wallet, phone, keys, snack, and a few other goodies, so a Camelback is really the only option. To be fair, I don’t like wearing a CB in hot weather because my back get drenched in sweat. Also I don’t really care for extra weight high up on my body. But when it comes to my new dream bike I could care less if it has water bottle bosses.
@bf Maybe you don’t ride as far as some people?
Your gripe is a water bottle cage!? Gimme a break. I bet you wear spandex on the trail too! 😉 I get my SC LT-C this week…I let ya know how it rides! ( without a water bottle)
Who needs a water bottle holder these days?! What a great looking bike!