Observant readers will note that I have been testing several “alt bars” on 29″ers over the past years and of them all I am most impressed with Ragley Bikes’ Carnegie’s Bar, which I picked as my favorite non-29″er related product of 2009. I have also hinted that a carbon version was in the works, and in fact, I have a pre-production version sample to test. (more on that in a bit)
The carbon version of the Carnegie’s Bar is shaped like the alloy version, but all similarities stop there. This bar will be made from carbon fiber, of course, but take note of that “phlegm colored” exterior. That is actually an exterior wrap of Kevlar that designer Brant Richards tells me will help prevent scratching of the exterior carbon fiber layers. Brant went on to say, “The thought of using the Kevlar layers on there is to get an extremely durable surface to the bar, that’s not notch sensitive like other carbon bars. We are doing testing involving nicking the surface of the bar, then testing, and finding no decreased strength, because the structural carbon is unaffected.” I was thinking that this is probably a smart idea for a mountain bike bar that is designed for aggressive riding. But that isn’t all.
The carbon version was extensively tested in the digital realm first using a program that can virtually test the model and adjust the layup schedule for the carbon according to test results to make the bar strong where it needs to be. Then actual bars are made which are physically tested. Not only that, but the carbon Carnegie’s Bar has passed the stringent European CEN tests. This should instill some amount of confidence in this bar for the average mountain biker.
You can expect the Carnegie’s Bar to be available in the new carbon version in about two and a half months. Colors will be available including Gloss White, Gloss Black, and a clear coated version of what you see here, (only Brant tells me it will be a “bit nicer looking” than the one I am testing.) U.S. riders will have to get these from the U.K. through Chain Reaction Cycles. You can expect to pay about $131.00 U.S. for the Carbon Carnegie’s plus shipping. (Alloy Carnegie’s Bars are $55 U.S. plus shipping)
Impressions: The carbon version of the Carnegie’s Bar will be ever so slightly longer than the alloy version which should please some critics of the design. Brant Richards informs me that the ends will be wrapped in a bit of extra carbon fiber to allow for trimming the bars without getting a “hairy Kevlar end”. That means the production versions will likely tip the scales at just over the 200 gram mark. The sample I have here weighs in at 190 grams.
The carbon version of this bar definitely has more “give” than the alloy version. Not to the point of distraction though, just a nice flexibility that mutes the stinging hits a bit. The same 25 degree bend is here, and that still seems to be a great angle for maximum control with the comfort that a swept bar brings. Otherwise the bar still rates as highly as ever, but now with slightly less weight and a bit different ride feel. I would recommend it for a rigid set up in combination with a fat tire set at a lower psi. It still should work for full suspension or hard, aggressive riders too.
Conclusions: Now with the addition of this carbon bar the Carnegie’s is available in two flavors. Same bar shape, and in three colors too. The carbon bar feel is going to appeal to those who want a bit of give rather than the stiff, unforgiving nature of the alloy bar. The testing and design that went into the carbon version should appeal to those who are a bit apprehensive about bolting a carbon bar to their rig. The slightly longer length should appeal to those who complained about the alloy versions perceived lack of room for controls, (although I did not find that to be the case). Is the carbon version better than the alloy one? I would say that it is “different” but still great. Just in its own unique way. Is it for you? It is if you are searching for a more comfortable bar than the traditional riser, but you don’t want to lose the control you get with a traditional riser. It is for you if you’ve tried other “alt bars” but they didn’t hold up to your standard aggressive, hard charging riding style. If you still can not stomach a carbon bar, the Ragley Carnegie’s bar in alloy should deserve a look. The Carnegie’s Bar gets a big thumbs up from me.
Note: This product was provided to Twenty Nine Inches at no charge. I am not being bribed or paid for this review. I will strive to give my honest thoughts and opinions throughout.
Due in large part to your strong endorsement, I’m getting the alloy bars in from CRC sometime in the next few days to go on my Monocog 29er build… I’m looking forward to testing them out!
The carbon versions look nice, but a bit spendy for me. The Kevlar coat definitely seems like a great idea too… I’ve always been a bit wary of carbon on mountain bikes, but that seems like it will take away many of the objections.
Would the kevlar-over-carbon concept work well for other components as well? Seems like Brant could get some mileage out of that idea… I know there’s a couple others out there that have done frames (Delta Arantix), but those seem pretty much priced out of the market.
There was going to be a flat version of this bar available. Will the flat version be available in carbon as well?
With all the interest on this side of the pond, why can’t there be a US distributor? CRC seems like a nice outfit, but 14 days of shipping and a steep fee is a bummer.
“Will the flat version be available in carbon as well? ”
We will watch sales of the flat alloy version to see if it’s worth the mileage putting a carbon version into production. Tooling isn’t cheap on these.
“CRC seems like a nice outfit, but 14 days of shipping and a steep fee is a bummer.”
The price for the alloy bar is $71.77 shipped, and shipping will take 3-5 days.
What is the lifespan of your typical carbon handlebar? I’m hearing stories of exploding carbon wheels from Mavic, recalled forks from Redline, recalled cranks from Ritchey, etc. and I’m not convinced carbon is a wise choice for handlebars. Metal bars can bend without snapping, then you can make it home generally. What happens when the carbon snaps and you are miles from home or, nowadays, miles from your SUV?
I’m also curious about carbon bar longevity, but most alloy bar failures I’ve seen don’t occur as bends, rather, they snap, as aluminum isn’t fond of bending a whole lot.
Well that’s good there’s a carbon version of this kind of bar out. Nice colour too! Reminds me of the old painted bars from the 80s. ๐
I’ll stick with my FUBar’s, but this looks like a good alternative.
Ps: It’s hard to imagine something more comfortable than an alloy FU/Carnegie bar. Mine are ridonkulously comfy.
Looks like an great option for a carbon SS – if and when available in a flat. Very nice geometry, lay-up design. The Kevlar overplies are a smart approach.
My alloy Carnegie bar shipped on the 14th. CRC was great in notifying me but man, its still not here and I’m spoiled with the better domestic shipping times. I do wish there was a stateside outlet for these bars.
G-Ted you need to set up the retail/commerce side of the web site and start stocking these sorts of unique items…as if you don’t have enough on your plate, heh heh. ๐
“The price for the alloy bar is $71.77 shipped, and shipping will take 3-5 days.”
Brant, I hate to tell you this partner, but I’ve ordered 3 different items from CRC and it was between 12-14 days for each order with no tracking number available. I have the e-mail from them which indicates they consider the order lost after 15 days. I got the e-mail 14 days after my last order with them in the morning and the package by that afternoon. Their website indicates 5-8 days.
It won’t stop me from ordering a carbon bar, but it’s hard not to assume the worst.
To all: The CEN testing that the carbon Carnegie’s Bar passed is by far the most stringent tests ever conducted on cycling equipment. Several carbon forks for road bikes were said to have been withdrawn or to have failed the testing procedures. Names of which are well known to cyclists, but shall not be revealed here.
I think the Ragley bar can be trusted. It has smart design details and should last a reasonable amount of time. That said, everything has a lifespan and can be broken. As for myself, I do not have any issues riding the bar. I will inspect it regularly and ride it a bunch. ๐
@WKilburg: Well, you are not the first to suggest that I get into distribution/retail. ๐ Fortunately for myself, I realize what that would entail, and up to now, no one has waved enough money in front of my nose to convince me that I should stop doing this and start doing “that”. ๐
If I disappear from the web one day and turn up in that sort of role, you’ll know that someone else had more cash than sense! ๐
On testing handle bars, German component maker Syntace has a machine called VR-3 that is a de facto standard for testing bars in Europe. This machine test everything from DH to road bars, and simulates actual use by a pair of hands holding a mounted bar, even including crashes.
In 02/2006 this machine revealed (in a test by Bike magazine in collaboration with the technical university of Munich) that some top brand carbon bars just simply broke after relatively short time in the machine. Biggest surprises were Ritchey WCS (both flat and riser) and Truvativ Team Carbon Riser. They all broke at less than 20k cycles out of a planned 150k cycles (equivalent to 30.000km of riding). The same year alu bars were also tested, much to the same result. Bike had programmed the machine to simulate the stress created by their test track by the Garda Lake in Italy. Anf just to mention it, Bike is known to be completely “anal” about their test procedures (everything gets measured accurately, relevant or not).
In 10/2008 the test was redone, and the results were greatly improved.
Here you can get more info and a video from the test (http://www.bike-magazin.de/?p=1385) (in German). More info at syntace.com about the VR-3.
gonna have to get me one of those. That clear-coated one would look perfect on my curry-color rigid Waltworks.
@chuckc1971: Sounds like your bar shipped the same day mine did from CRC, and I’m still waiting for it. I’m not sure how much geography matters as customs wait times themselves, but I’m in the Detroit area. I’m hoping it’ll be here by next weekend, which will be a bit more than two weeks since shipping.
I ride with Jones H Bars (45degree), On*One Mary Bars (35degree) both on my single speeds.
My alloy Carnegieโs Bar is perfect for my geared rigid Niner and I’ve a carbon pair on order to go on this, so that the alloy ones can then go on the geared Rumblefish.
Yes, I hate riding with uncomfortable flat or riser bars. The big sweeps are great for getting up hills on single speeds but the Carnegieโs are perfect (for me) on my geared bikes.
MHO the best test to see if these bars are right for you is to hold your arms out in front of you with a slight bend at your elbows, gently clench your fists as if holding a bar. Hold this position for a minute or so and if your little fingers knuckle are about an inch and a half below your index fingers knuckles, get online and get a set of Carnegieโs. Be warned all your bikes will get them in the end.
I ordered the Carnegie’s bar from CRC on the 14th and got it yesterday afternoon (22nd). They indicated 5-8 business days on their site – it took 6. Not too bad considering. That’s my only experience with them though.
Still haven’t tried out the bar – it’s going on a build and I haven’t figured out what stem length I need yet (the setup bar I have on there now is smaller diameter).
That sucks. Mine were shipped on the 14th and still have not gotten here!
My normal Carnegie’s are heading over to my GF Rumblefish next week, the new “test” Carbon one’s turned up today and have taken the weight of my Niner Air9 down to 20.34lbs.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25655510@N02/4351214685/in/pool-onephotoeveryday
You must get yourself a set of these fantasticly comfortable bars.
Waiting…Wanting…
They are worth the wait, I fitted my original “normal” Carnegie’s on to my full susser and had the best ride on it so far this weekend just gone.
Another thing they are good at is steep out of the saddle climbs as your thight’s don’t keep hitting the straight bars, the all day comfort was fantastic as well.
Wow, what do I have to do around here for a freakin update on this review? And why can’t we get any update on WHEN THESE WILL BE AVAILABLE???
PLEASE!
glad to see you’re keen.
production bars were coming out of molds last week. can’t be too much longer.
@Wish I Were Riding: Much like your moniker online, I wish I was riding on real off road trail all winter, but since our trails have just opened up, the update was/is going to have to wait a bit longer. ๐
I’ll chime back in once I get a feel for these on single track, which won’t be much longer now.
Any update from Brant?
I asked my agent this the other day:-
Yes, All handlebar is finished, but stay at paint factory.
Will back to our factory end of next week , and we need to cut the end and
re-heat again ( to make sure the paint is real get dry ).
End of April, we will ship the handlebar , blk, white and clear coating.
There was mention of flat and riser versions. Which will be shipped end of April?
Only version in production is the standard “positive” riser version.
That ‘riser’ version can be run upside down I take it???
@Wish I Were Riding: Yes.
I’m very interested in a flat version in carbon fiber….. please, please put them into production. ๐
From ragley bikes:
“We hope to have these in stock at our dealers in a couple of weeks โ Mid to Late May.”
Yay!!!
It’s already Mid-May!?!?
@chuckc1971: I’ve seen photos of the production samples, so they should be on the way very soon now.
GT, these sound perfecto for me. But I was wondering what your measurements were, generally speaking. I’m a tall, rangy guy, 6’4″ with long arms. Will these fit me on my setup? I ride a rigid steel custom rig set up with 1×9 gears. Using a Salsa Pro Moto carbon riser right now and have problems with finger numbness. Also use a Sram grip shift. Is there room for it?
@Frank: I am 6’1″ with longish arms. (35″) Not as rangy as you are, but these bars fit me well. I would say that as long as you use a Grip Shift compatible grip there should be plenty of room here. Have you tried the Ergon grips? They really work well for my hands. There is a Grip Shift compatible version of them as well.
Indeed – our agent put all the first production in a sea freight container, which has now shipped, rather than notifying us so we could air freight some.
Though, that said, air freight has got very expensive since Eyjafjallajokul blew its top.
@Frank: I’m running a grip shift on the left, full length Ergons both sides and previously ran a RockShox poploc on the right just inside the X-9 shifter. Fit fine on the Al version.
So, does Chain Reaction have this to pre-order? I assume that’s where those in the USA will have to order from, correct?
Assuming no issues with clamping the Ergons on the carbon bar?
@Frank: I have had zero problems and even with yanking hard on the grips for standing grunts, they have been stable. No slippage.
That said, this is a pre-production version that I have and production versions are clear coated. You may need to rough up the clear coat to get proper grip with a bolt on like the Ergon’s I use.
Chain Reaction should be showing them for preorder shortly. As they’re now in a container on the water. I’ll see if I can get the right buttons pressed by them on Monday.
@Brant: Any word? I pre-ordered these when they first showed up on Chain Reaction. Contrary to your last comment, the expected due-in-stock date was (and still is) 6/30/2010.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=48240
I think CRC probably know far more about due dates than me.
Brant,
I was waiting to order a set of the Carnegie’s and was checking every day with CRC and the site said “Due in Stock” June 30th
checked today and CRC says out of stock..WTF???
I guess I was a dumb a## for waiting to place order when they were in stock on the 30th
Do you have a rough idea when you will be getting some in??
@jim,
Danm! I was doing the exact same thing! ARGH!
Don’t worry – that’s what CRC’s systems do if it goes past a due date without product arriving. They’re very close.
They ARE worth the wait.
I finally know what the phrase “slow boat from China” means ๐
@jim – I got a stock alert this morning from CRC. I’ve ordered 2 bars… Hope I like them!
I have a pending credit card transaction from CRC for my pre-order. Now, to wait 14-16 more days to make it across the pond.
thanks for the heads up John ๐
I was going to order the raw finish, but I don’t want to wait anymore…got it ordered
hey also thanks for the help with the questions Brant…..now to wait for the new carbon forks
“now to wait for the new carbon forks”
Oldtimers alert. My cold raddled brain seems to remember some mention of a carbon fork. Is this a 440mm or so fork for the new non-suspension corrected Ragley bike or a 465-470mm one? Anyone have a link? I’ve searched this site, shedfire’s and Ragley’s.
Brant: Care to comment?
Found it here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=629031&highlight=Ragley
“Ragley fork in early pre-production right now, hoping for rideable production for late August, with full production end of September.”
“440, 455 and 470mm, with short or long rake and 9 or 15mm versions.
Not every option will be made, but the key ones (I can’t see us doing a short rake 470mm one for instance).
Fork is full carbon construction, not “tubes” and a “crown”.
When I say “9” or “15mm” I mean “Qr” or “bolt through”
Oh, and they’re IS not post mount, as we’re making them for people, not production lines.”
I think Brant’s new fork will give the Niner Carbon forks some well deserved competition
Got mine and installed them. The packaging says “If you have to ask, you can’t do it.” Pretty funny, but I’m not going to pay my LBS to do it. I installed them, and the only thing I wish I knew exactly was the torque spec, which wasn’t anywhere I saw. Suggestions?\
Like to picts on mtbr here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7124459&postcount=29
Presume these can be reversed to get a lower front end?
@Clink: Yes, and actually, there is a version with the graphics printed so they are upright when the bar is upside down.
I would really like to have a carbon version of these bars but can’t find them anywhere. Any suggestions?
@Milam: Pester Chain Reaction Cycles UK. They are the sole distributor of Ragley. All I see available now are the alloy ones: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=42192