Okay, so now here comes the “big” one. Gary Fisher Bikes newest model in the 29″er line up, the Rumblefish, is a bit of a conundrum on paper. Touted as a step up in terms of travel, it is a bit of a puzzler to learn that it has the same amount of travel as a Hi Fi or the Superfly 100. So, how is this going to be any different than getting a Hi Fi and sticking a 120mm fork on it? That was the question I had going into the camp.
What’s The Deal?: So, the lowdown on the Rumblefish in a nuts and bolts breakdown is this: Different aluminum frame than the Hi Fi. Well……..at least the front triangle is different. Fisher used a slightly slacker head angle and different shock mounting points on the Rumblefish necessitating a different front triangle. The rear of the bike is otherwise the same as a Hi Fi. The shock is obviously very different. The DRCV Fox will be mentioned in more detail later. The front end is graced with a Fox F-29 120mm travel 15QR fork, making the bottom bracket height higher on the Rumblefish as well. The Rumblefish II that I rode was bone stock with a mostly XT drive train and Avid Elixir brakes featuring a 185mm front/160mm rear rotor set up.
DRCV: It is what makes a Rumblefish a Rumblefish.
Fox DRCV Rear Shock: Fisher folks stressed that the type of travel that the Rumblefish was going to provide was the distinguishing factor between the Hi Fi/Superfly 100’s and the Rumblefish models. This centers around the DRCV damper fitted to the Rumblefish. In essence, it is an air shock with an extra air chamber. Usually you see this sort of thing as an external unit with some variation on plumbing running back to the main air chamber. Not so with the new DRCV damper which was designed in collaboration with Fox and Trek/Fisher shock guru, Jose Gonzales and his team. On the DRCV, the extra air volume is part of the main unit, making the entire package more compact. The way it works is very unique as well. When the main piston gets to approximately 50% of its travel in the damper, it contacts a “plunger” which activates a valve opening the airway to the secondary chamber of the DRCV unit. Without getting all high tech, this dual air chamber, and the way it works lets the shock ramp up way later in its stroke and provides a much more linear spring rate throughout the midstroke of the suspensions travel. This is an important point I will refer to later.
But that isn’t all. The “Boost Valve” rate on the DRCV damper is set at a much lower rate than on the Superfly/Hi Fi line up of bikes. This translates into a noticeably more plush small bump compliance, and a tendency to bob a bit when out of the saddle efforts are undertaken on the Rumblefish. It is a trade off that Fisher designers thought was a plus on the Rumblefish to keep the feel consistent throughout its range of travel. And really, it fits the purpose of this model much better, in my opinion. It is a “trail bike” after all! Not a hard tail.
Set Up: It has to be stressed that any full suspension bike needs to be dialed in before you ride it to get the correct performance out of the design. The Rumblefish is no exception, and if anything, it is even more critical due to the DRCV damper. To properly charge both air chambers, there are two key elements to the set up procedure. First, the shock air pump that is used must be fully screwed onto the Schrader valve. Since the Schrader valve is specifically designed to allow you to accomplish charging both air chambers at once, it will fail to do so if you only partially screw the pump on. You will see the needle jump on the guage at first, but don’t let this fool you into thinking you have it on far enough to charge both chambers. It is best to screw on the pump all the way to insure you will get the job done right.
Secondly, it is critical to cycle the damper at least 50% of the way through its travel and re-check the sag measurement. The reason for this is that the second air chamber will not equalize pressure with the main air chamber unless the Dual Rate Control Valve is actuated by the plunger. If this step is neglected, you will sense that the damper isn’t set to your weight and that the rear is blowing through its travel. After going through the proper procedure, I found that a front to rear balance was easy to achieve and the bike performed very well on the trail.
The XTR rear derailluer and the 12-36T cassette were welcomed spec on the Rumblefish.
120mm fork, aggressive tires, bigger front rotor, and tubeless Bontrager Rhythm Elite wheels add up to a high degree of trail worthiness.
Other Features: The Rumblefish, being a trail bike, is spec’ed a bit differently than the Hi Fi and Superfly bikes. Here we see the new Shimano 12-36T cassette out back. Bigger brakes, and Rhythm wheels shod with Bontrager 29-3 tires. (The “front” model on both ends) These wheels and tires were set up tubeless on our tester rigs. In a change from the past, the new Rhythm and Race Lite wheels that were featured in the Press Camp will come with the proper rim strips with the bikes to allow consumers to set up the tires tubeless right out of the gate if desired. Good move on Fisher’s part. The handle bars were wider and had more sweep, adding up to a comfortable, slightly more upright position that I thought was excellent for what this model is intended for.
Trail Performance: Okay, enough of the babbling. How did it work? Well, it was a very different feeling bike. It was immediately evident that the Fox DRCV was a whole different animal on this bike. I felt the bike was definitely more sensitive to small trail chatter, and it did feel a bit more like a suspension bike than the Superfly 100 did. This was the lower Boost Valve setting coming into play. Once all the climbing was done, and I was able to breathe the thin mountain air without having to work so hard, the trail turned to a more rock laden, technical type of single track that really showed me the virtues of the Rumblefish’s design. Most medium sized trail obstacles were no match for the Rumblefish and were smoothed out much better than they were on the Superfly 100. Climbing up over some one foot high ledges was amazingly smooth, and rocks in the trail that were fist sized and larger were dealt with in a much more calm and refined manner than with the Superfly 100. Good climbing, just like the Superfly 100, but even bigger obstacles could be approached seated and ridden right over. If anything negative could be said about the climbing performance, it would be that the front wheel tended to wander just a bit more than on the Superfly 100, but I think that is to be expected with the category of bike the Rumblefish is in. (Read: longer fork/slacker head angle)
When things pointed down, the tapered steer tube and massive down tube kept you going straight.
Of course, trail bikes are supposed to descend really well, and the Rumblefish is no exception. The front to rear balance of the suspension was spot on, making riding down unfamiliar trails a lot less stressful. Travel felt very consistent throughout the stroke in the rear. I never could tell if I was bottoming out, or close to it, but afterwards a check of the o-ring on the shock shaft showed I had used very nearly all the travel available. I wouldn’t call it a “bottomless” feeling rear end, but it was super consistent from just off the top end of travel to very near the end of its limit. The Fox front fork was stiff, plush, and smooth as well. I felt I was getting a significant amount of the travel; however, not everyone in attendance was in agreement on that point. Some were saying they felt the Fox F-29 was great feeling fork, but they weren’t getting all the travel they expected, much like the previous F-29 models. Hmm……well, that aside, I thought the example I rode was very well mannered and front to rear performance was spot on with a very linear feel.
Even though the Rumblefish has a slightly higher bottom bracket and a slightly slacker head angle, it is no slouch in the handling department, although its relaxed design was apparent after riding the Superfly 100. They do feel different in this regard, but it isn’t a dramatically different feel, to my mind. The Rumblefish is well suited for trail exploits in the handling department with a nod to slightly more stable handling than a Superfly 100/Hi Fi.
Other Bits: The wheels and tires were excellent on this bike. Tubeless pressures in the low 20’s for me and I was loving the traction and ride feel. The brakes were a real improvement over the old Juicy brake models I have used. They were very easy to modulate, and had lots of “whoa” power when called upon. Of course, the ABP brake pivot was very noticeable in the ride of the Rumblefish, just as with the Superfly 100, it gave a much more rigid and stiff feel laterally to the rear end of the bike, and braking performance was definitely enhanced by this feature. Again, I am very impressed by the improvements to the rear end of the full suspension 29″ers that Gary Fisher Bikes has for 2010.
Conclusions: So, here is the bottom line: While the Rumblefish is a disappointment in the actual measurement in its rear wheel travel, the bike is a huge hit for me in terms of performance. This suspension is really dialed folks. With the massive improvements made to the rear end of the bike, the DRCV Fox shock, and the spec on the Rumblefish, it is going to be a hard bike to ignore for anyone looking for a rig to ride all day on the mountain or in the woods. The shorter wheel base, the longer travel fork, and the G2 geometry all conspire to make this a really fun bike to ride over most trail obstacles the average mountain biker will come across. It really is a different feeling and performing bike than the Hi Fi/Superfly 100, and with so much of these bikes being the same, this alone is an amazing achievement by the Fisher bunch. I would highly recommend that somebody in the market for a trail rig with wagon wheels take a look at the Rumblefish. If you can ignore the 110mm figure for the rear travel long enough to actually ride the thing, I think you might find that it doesn’t matter all that much in “the end”. What does matter is that the Rumblefish is a very capable and highly refined bike that is a great addition to the 29″er line up at Gary Fisher Bikes. Do we need longer travel? Maybe some of us do, but I feel the Rumblefish will take care of a big slice of the trail bike crowd. For those needing/longing for more, we can only hope the next step is a big wheeled Roscoe. But for now, this Rumblefish is pretty dang cool. Color me impressed.
I’ll be back with some more thoughts from the Gary Fisher Bikes Press camp later this week. Stay Tuned!
Good feedback. I like to see the collaboration between manufacturer and parts supplier (i.e. Fox).
Did the slacker head angle compensate the G2 fork offset to remove the almost twichy feel the 2009 HiFi had?
Do you have any weight difference information between the Rumblefish, HiFi and Superfly complete bike models?
The 15QR axle seems like it should be on every bike, can you comment on its performance in reducing the flex you are always sternly against?
What would be the best choice for a Serious Cat 1 Super D (Cross Country and Downhill course combination) Racer between the Rumblefish and Superfly models you rode?
what kind of rear tire clearance does the rumblefish have?
@Alan 2dogwalk: (Refer to your same question on the Superfly post) In addition to the other comments, I will add here that the Rumblefish is a bit more stable handling bike.
To your second question, The Superfly can be easily built in a size large to sub 23lbs. (JHK’s XX build weighs this), the stock Hi Fi Pro should tip the scales at around 25-26lbs depending upon size, and the Rumblefish will be in the 28-29lb range, again depending upon size, which ranges from small to an incredibly huge XXL size!
To your third question- see the Superfly post for a response.
@oilcanracer: It should easily clear 2.35″ers with mud clearance to spare. (This from Fisher spec)
Alan, superfly, no question.
The rumblefish is a trail bike.
The superfly/hi fi are race bikes.
Really depends on what you want out of the bike, not your racing classification…
Bone up on it.
Nooch.
GT,
Great to hear that the “FIsh” is a different bike from the Hi-Fi! Sounds like a perfect bike for those who want a “trail” bike with big wheels and dont want/need “alot” of travel.
Wonder why the bike you rode was speced with the XTR rear derailleur? Perhaps that could be part of the ETA delay on the 2010 models? The bike is spec’ed with XT Shadow on Fishers’ site.
I would like to know your thoughts on the Standover numbers. For example my 09′ XL Hi-Fi has a low standover of 752mm due to the old frame design with the large “dip” in the top tube. The 2010 Models now have a Straight top tube and the standover has jumped in my XL size to 837mm. I am 6’3 210lb but do not have the longest inseam. I hope the change is not a problem…
@Weatherman: When asked about the spec, I was told it was complete and as would be delivered. Often times spec changes, and as you know, the companies all say, “Specs can be changed without notice”. π
On the ETA: I was told that the latest is that the Rumblefish and Hi Fi bikes are both slated for late October deliveries.
On Standover: The Rumblefish may pose a problem with the higher BB. I noticed it when mounting/dismounting. But otherwise I did not notice anything odd in that department while riding the Superfly 100. I suppose if you were close on the old XL size, it may be an issue.
Thanks for the Reply.
I was Not close at all on my 09 Hi-Fi but my Niner EMD XL has a standover of 829 and that is “getting close”. :p
Cant wait for the Hi-Fi Pro to show up! π “Good Things Come To Those Who Wait”… so they say……..
A you said GT… I am holding out for big wheeled freaking Roscoe. Why can’t we get a full blown AM bike but dimished shortened version just because it is a 29er? If someone wants a big hit bike with big wheels why not getting 140-160mm OEM forks? TREK and GF have enough coins to do that. wait a minute they already did it with G2 geometry…..
@Davidcopperfield: You ask a great question, and I also asked it. The answer? The fork doesn’t exist that Fisher R&D feels is up to the task of matching what they could/can do with a long travel 29″er. How do they know this?……………. π
G Ted , Thanx for the great up date, I wish I could have tagged along tis weekend , but with carpool and elk/deer bowhunt it was not in the cards. Sounds like youl’ll be around this week maybe we could get together for a ride. I would like to hear more about the ride of the Fishers. It reminds me of the days of old with the “how much travel do bikes need ” 2″ enough3″ enough 4″enogh.I want a 5″ travel all mountain 29er, after riding an 8″ plus travel 26″bike. For weeks after that ride I got flat after double flat on my Front supensution only bike. I want to go faster and faster down hill. That Foes, Niner, and Intense look better and better. Then I ride my rigded dropbar 29er and wonder what more do I need. Big Wheel Ballywho in PC might be nice!
@ Sapnky
Rigid 29er rules! Yep, fully comprehend the need for, and advantages of, long travel FS, but still, for me HT Rigid is so much more fun…
@Spanky: Well, Park City sure is awesome! I will have to get back again sometime and really spend more time plunking around on a 29″er, that’s for sure! π
If ya want a Big Wheeled Ballyhoo in PC, just send over some Home Brew for our Home Brew contest. If it wins, you get the date! π
@Spanky & RubberBoy: Funny you should bring up rigid 29″ers. 29erCrew member Jesse LaLonde was sporting a very lightweight rigid Superfly SS and was tearing it up right alongside the fully suspended Superfly 100 rigs on Friday. Simply mind blowing how good a rider he is!
Ted,
Re: the differences between the fish I and II. I have reviewed the specs and am trying to distinguish the value to price difference in these two bikes. Is there really 1.3k more value in the components on the fish II? 30% price increase between models seems massive. Is having the compression on the front shock, the extra setting on the rear, the lighter whealset, the CR over the 5 brakes and XT over SLX really equal the price increase?
Thoughts
@G33kboy: Well, I would miss the compression setting. I like that on the Fox fork. I also like the nicer wheels. The rest I “could” live without.
Aesthetically I like the red scheme better. Hmm………….looks like I’d end up with the Rumble 1 and upgrade.
GT,
Understanding you have not spent a lot of time on the Rumblefish, how would you say it compares to the Big Mamma as an all around trail bike?
@Nevada 29er: Yes, I haven’t but one ride on the Rumblefish, but my impression is that it has a smoother feeling suspension from the beggining of the stroke all the way to near bottom out. Much more linear feeling than the Big Mama, which ramps up more. The Rumblefish doesn’t have quite the hardtail feeling that the Big Mama has which ironically reminds me more of the Superfly 100.
The Rumblefish wasn’t the “disconnected, floaty feeling” bike, like the R.I.P. 9 always feels like to me, but it leans more in that direction as far as how the bike feels. The Rumble feels “bigger” than it is, and that probably is the main thing folks will get out of its ride.
Chalk it all up to that DRCV Fox shock. π
GT: I just got my first ride on a RF II at a demo day and have to say that it was probably the most fun I have had riding a FS 29er. I also drew the conclusion that the suspension front to back was absolutely dialed in. I felt that the rear end absorbed so many small bumps that I hardly felt them, but when I stood up to climb something a bit major, it just moved up without any issues. Handling was spot on in my mind. No twitchyness, but definitely quick enough on the turns
I want the RF1 color on the RF2 build, but I am concerned that the suspension/handling on the RF1 will not be a good as the RF2 even if I upgrade wheels/drivetrain/brakes.
Honestly, if the wheels on the II are that much better than the I, I would highly suggest getting the II. I’ve had mine (the II) for a few weeks, and after only one ride, I had my LBS upgrade my wheelset to the Rhythm Pros. The Elites are pretty flexy IMO, and now that I’ve got the lighter, stiffer, faster Pros on there, I’m a much happier man. So I can’t imagine a lesser wheelset than the Elites. But with the Pros on there, this bike is almost a completely different bike. Love those wheels.
Other than this, the Rumblefish is an excellent, excellent bike. Good climber, actually quite light for what it is, and the descent on this bike is really out of this world. So far, unless something breaks, this is the best bike I’ve ever owned. And I’ve owned quite a few.