Mid Term: Spot Rocker SS Ti-by Grannygear
The Spot Rocker SS Ti sits in the garage with a fine coating of dust on it from the last few hours of trail time. I have been on it now for many miles, climbed some mountains, threaded my way through twisting singletrack, and plunged down fast and rutted fire roads. Usually, by now, often within the first few rides, I have a bike pretty figured out. But the Rocker SS Ti is one I am still trying to come to terms with. There are some things I really like about it and some things I am not so convinced about…at least until the next ride, then I question my thinking and need to back off and collect my thoughts, then ride it again.
The first ride was a 12 mile in and out that began with an hour long climb up the typical So Cal hard baked fire road with sandy patches, small rain ruts, and washboard from vehicle traffic. On the dirt and pedaling in the saddle, the SS Ti is a comfy beast, even with the less than awesome compliance of the 27.2 Thomson lay back post. It rolls out smoothly and the Mavic Cross Max SLRs feel great with the light Rocket Rons on there. The belt is dead silent and smooth (at least for now…time will tell if the dust mice return). I set the CTD Fox fork on the Trail setting and find that it has a decent amount of resistance to bobbing and even out of the saddle it remains pretty composed. In the Climb mode it is completely steady with only a slight give in movement.
Standing climbing is what single speeds are all about around here. And in that mode I am getting a lot of twist at the handlebar end as I pull hard. I cannot imagine that it is the Enve carbon bar, so it is either the frame or the stem or both. Hmmm…. Besides that, I can feel the slightly taller gearing compared to what I ride but the light overall bike and light wheels help make the difference. Despite that lack of grams though, the SS Ti feels just a bit lazy when I get really close to zero RPM in steep sections. Keep some momentum and it flies along. Is this a Ti thing or?
Backing up a bit, I actually noticed one thing right away the first time I stood and pedaled…that slack head tube angle. It is very different feeling compared to the more typical 71-ish degree setting of my other single speed bikes. It seems to want to flop over a bit as I rock the bike side to side. Still, as the miles go by, I get used to it. However, on the single track, tight, sandy, rutted…the head tube angle seems to make me notice it again and not in a good way. It actually turns really well. Very agile. But at sub walking speed as I would crest a rise in the trail and turn, the front wheel would want to flop again. Also, it seemed to want to skip over the top of sand in the turns.
So far I am not so impressed with the slack angle and the bike as a whole.
Then, I flip the ride around and head back down the fast and choppy fire road. Oh, well now this is crazy better! Here is where that slacker head tube angle wakes up and smells the roses. Fun, fun fun. Adding to that, the SS Ti is smuuuuuve with a capital Smu. Yeah, really smooth riding bike. I swear I have a low rear tire and actually stop to check. Nope. The Fox CTD fork in open mode feels better than any Fox fork I have been on, the frame is sucking up a ton of chatter, and the steering is so confidence inspiring that it is kinda weird to feel that kind of speed on a hard tail, at least until I hit a cross angled rut, then the front end was twisting again. Still, it was a hoot.
In the end it was a wash. Not so great on half the ride, nearly great on the second half. But back home I was curious about the flex in the front end. I had some suspicions about the Thomson Elite stem and I wanted to get a bit more length than the 90mm stocker offered. On went a Syncros 100mm stem in its place and voila…much, much more solid response to tugging on the bar. The next ride was a 3.5 mile steep fire road climb and descent and the difference was evident. It was not the frame, well not much anyway…some I suppose…but for my size and weight the Thomson stem was not single speed rated.
And so this has been the way it has been throughout the entire test process. I will love parts of the performance of the bike then another attribute not so much, but then, within the same ride, I will change my mind. Nuts! So I am going to keep riding and try to come to some conclusions:
- What is that 69.25 degree head tube angle doing to me? Is it a plus or minus overall?
- Is titanium really all that special? Sure it is smooth…crazy smooth, but am I getting what I need out of it for an single speed app?
- I think I will let someone else ride it with no per-conceived notions and see what they say. Could be that I am getting in my own way here.
Note: Spot bikes sent the Rocker SS Ti for test/review at no charge to Twenty Nine Inches. We are not being bribed nor paid for these reviews and we will strive to give you our honest thoughts and opinions throughout.
Maybe a 70degree head angle is the holy grail…….maybe a rigid front fork is the answer? Nice report…
I’ve been experiencing a similar issue with front-end flex on a Ti frame, but hadn’t considered it would be the Thomson Elite. Is that a carbon FL V2 Syncros?
See,that’s what you get from reading all that headtube angle squabble on the internet… major HTA expectations & assumptions stress..
Why not judge the bike on its behaviour alone? I mean, trying to explain all of it from a single geometry number is a bit of a tough job. Geometry is more than HTA and bike behaviour also depends on how you fit the bike. Your weight seems to be pretty far back, which is a piece of the vague steering puzzle too.
Typically I do not read ahead for any bike I review as to angles, etc, if I can help it, but this one was told to me months before I got the bike. However, I would have known something was up in the first 50′ when I rode the bike in front of my house. Very noticeable.
And frankly I am judging the bike on the performance alone and that is what is such a dilemma for me…sometimes it just flat out works great and other times…eh, not so much.
This is a LG and I really should be on an XL, but this is not unlike other LGs I have owned and enjoyed and is right where the steel Rocker was. So that may be part of what you are seeing there.
But JeroenK you are spot on (no pun intended) about a bike being more than just one defining angle or length, etc. And, add in the human’s ability to adapt over time and you have a wide range of what is acceptable. Further along those lines, even if you can adapt to it, that does not mean it is optimal for your needs or desires. It just means you got used to it. That’s all.
Interestingly enough, I had a near two hour conversation with the Spot folks after posting this article and we discussed their philosophy behind the dimensions/angles. I will touch on that in the summation post.
I will say that, even if I do not end up being won over personally, I bet this bike will make a lot of folks very happy for what it does well.
As in any review, it is a subjective process for the most part (unless the item being reviewed simply does not work) so the terrain, personal expectations, proclivities and neurosis of the reviewer may not mean much to someone else. The trick is to give a fair and balanced review and communicate the thinking behind the result so others can decide how it relates to them.
Or something like that.
Oh, and that is not a carbon Syncros. Not sure of the model, but it is a very nice piece of work.
gg
I’m surprised this whole report had nary a mention of the belt drive. Is it good enough in this application that you are just able to ignore it?
@GrantB: Actually, he did mention it was working well unless the dust started making it squeak.
We’ve done extensive testing of Gates Carbon Drive in the 8mm/10mm, and Center Track versions. Short version: Get the Center Track if you are wanting a belt single speed. It works. It can be squeaky in dry, dusty environments. It is expensive. You need a special frame. It isn’t easy to swap out ratios and it costs more than a chain system. You can’t “fine tune” with half links, obviously. But it does work.
@GrantB…what you said…and what GT said. Unless it squeaks, you just don’t notice that it is there and that is as it should be.
gg
Hey GG. Put in one of those Cane Creek ahead sets and adjust the steering angle 1 degree or so. Why not?
Also, I have a bike where i slackened the angle a little bit and i noticed that it was kind of lazy in sub walking speeds too. I couldn’t really find a reason to explain it, so I figured it was just my mood or something. But maybe there is something to a slacker steering angle being a little more lazy and floppier at slow speeds.
@Kurti_sc…well, here is the deal. There are plenty of other Ti bikes out there (maybe not belt friendly) that are more ‘traditional’ in the approach to HT angle, so if that was what a person wanted then this is the wrong bike for them. You would buy this bike because you want the performance it offers including the way it drives down the trail and there is plenty to like about what the Rocker SS Ti dishes out.
And yes, that is a trait of a slacker HT angle, at least as it has been my experience. Everything is a compromise.
gg
Could it be the long chain stays? Big wheelbase? Sorry but it does sound like the AngleSet head set was made for this kind of application!
Now a days we change stems/bars at will to get the right “cockpit”. We change sag, damping rates on forks, alll the time………maybe the problem is the “trail” of the fork? Is the trail figure(I know 29inches.com stopped giving this number awhile ago) but it seems very appropriate for this bike.
@Yogi…17.6 is not long, really, although for an SS I would prefer under 17.5″. And the wheelbase is not long either, no more so than the Carve SS is. They are quite close overall in front-center, WB, CS, etc, they just get there from different dimensions and have a different vibe desire the similar tale of the tape.
The fork is pretty typical as well.
I had a long, hard ride on the Rocker SS Ti today. 8 miles of single track and rough dirt road climbing on a sustained grade that tested it hard for climbing prowess (me too). Then I flipped around and descended it all, giving me plenty of time to ‘bond’ with the Ti scooter.
There is nothing ‘wrong’ with this bike that needs to be fixed IMO. But it does have a certain persona to it that needs to be understood. That is what I have been trying to come to terms with and I think I have it pretty figured out now.
I cannot imagine spending nearly 4K dollars on a frame and then having to use an Angleset to get it ‘right’ when you just could have bought something else from the beginning, including, at this price, a full custom frame with the angles you specify.
An informed rider would buy this bike because it is what it is, including the geometry and what is does to the ride performance. It is a bit of thinking outside of the box, but we don’t ride around inside boxes now do we?
Look for a final word on this soon.
gg
You really think the Thomson stem was that flexy? Aren’t those typically regarded as some of the strongest stems available?
@Andrew…hard to doubt the results. Twisty bar before, less twisty after (by quite a bit). With the Thomson I could stand astride the bike and twist the bars and the result was visible to someone looking at the bike from the front.
IIRC this was an Elite model stem. Perhaps that was the issue.
gg
I would have to chalk it up to it being an Elite model stem. I’ve seen numbers showing the new X4 is one of the stiffest out there. Interesting to hear that though.