Gary Fisher Rumblefish II: Final Review
July 27th, 2010 by Guitar TedThe Gary Fisher Bikes Rumblefish II review found itself in a strange position recently due to two things that were unforeseen. #1: The model was nearly impossible to find on a dealer’s floor past the springtime because of lower production numbers overall due to the economy last year. (Many models from several companies fall under this category, by the way) Secondly, and most surprisingly, there is no Gary Fisher Bikes brand anymore! For more on that story, see the following links here and here.
So, where does that leave us? Actually, all the hullabaloo turns out to be no big deal in the end. The 2011 Rumblefish will appear with some refinements and different graphics, but what we are reviewing is largely the same bike. While we lament the fact that examples of this fine bike are hard, (or impossible), to find now, we know that the 2011 models are on the way, so we feel confident that the review will still be useful to those looking to buy this bike in the near future. With all that said, here is the final post on the 2010 Rumblefish II I have been riding for a few months now.
The 2011 Rumblefish will be essentially the same in terms of suspension functions and frame refinements as the 2010 model was. Color, and drivetrain spec will be the biggest differences.
The Overall Package: The Rumblefish model line represents Gary Fisher, (now the Fisher Collection- by the way, wouldn’t the “Fisher Collective” have a better ring to it? Hmm….), take on a 29 inch wheeled trail bike. Something you’d ride all day on a mountain, go for a fun day ride with some buddies on, or just plunk around the back country with. It is heavily based on the HiFi cross country bike line with some important differences in head angle and shock distinguishing the Rumblefish from its more high strung sisters. The 2010 line up included two models which will expand to three for 2011. Our main skepticism with the Rumblefish going in was the 110mm rear travel figure which we saw as a bit short for the claims Fisher was making for the bike when it debuted.
Performance: How did the Rumblefish score as a trail bike? I think it did very well. Actually, I was quite surprised. Mainly due to the DRCV Fox damper the bike is fitted with. Although there are other worthy points, which I’ll get to in a minute, the DRCV makes the Rumblefish a Rumblefish. This damper is essentially a two stage shock that features two air chambers which act together to continue a very linear spring rate throughout the rear wheels travel as it absorbs the trail irregularities. It works amazingly well. That said, it is also amazingly frustrating to set up initially for those short of attention. Impatience will not suit the shock set up procedure, which for me covered two to three outings before I felt I had it dialed in to the sweet spot. Some may get it in much shorter time, but even at the demo I attended in September of 2009, it was apparent that the shock set up was a bit time consuming. The Fisher mechanic at the demo, who was well versed in the set up procedure, was taking upwards of a half an hour for each person to just get us in the ball park with set ups. Is it worth working out? Totally. This damper makes the bike come alive and ride like no other full suspension 29″er I have ridden with the exception of the Lenz Lunchbox prototype I rode at Interbike a few years ago. The suspension feels bottomless, and feels like far more than the 110mm figure suggests. I’ll get back to what that does for the ride, but there is more going on here.
The previous generation of HiFi bikes had great front triangle torsional stiffness, but were plagued by a flexy rear swing arm assembly that was noted for some failures by riders who owned them. (We never had any breakages with our ‘08 Hi Fi tester, but it was flexy in the rear) Fisher engineers fixed the swing arm assembly by going to a one piece seat stay instead of the previous two piece unit, moved the rear pivot to be concentric with the rear axle, (ABP), lessening the lever arm that the rear wheel generates on the frame, and moved the main swing arm pivot rearwards slightly, which shortened the chain stay length, and stiffened the swing arm. Tire clearances were opened up a bit in the process as well. All these things made a dramatic improvement to the 2010 Hi Fi/Rumblefish line and I would put the rear suspension into the “Very Good” category in terms of rear end stiffness now.
Bonus: The ABP system, which originally appeared on Trek’s full suspension bikes, was brought over to the Fisher 29 inch full suspension line up for 2010. The idea is that applying the rear brake on a full suspension bike locks out the rear suspension, or what is termed as “brake jack” by riders. ABP puts the pivot of the rear swing arm/seat stay concentric with the rear axle, dramatically lessening the “brake jack” phenomenon. Let me tell you, Grannygear and I both agree that this is for real. Try braking hard with the rear brake going into a corner, and usually the bike will stutter, and start jumping sideways. Not the Rumblefish. Try as we might, we couldn’t get it to misbehave much, even when attempting to induce bad handling. So, ABP does what it is said to do for the brake/suspension performance, but let’s not forget about how it stiffens up that rear assembly as well, which I think is just as important on a 29″er. Look for the 2011 Rumblefish to have an increased diameter ABP pivot, which resembles a through axle as well as doing the brakes a favor. It should really give the rear end a feeling of greater stiffness laterally.
Finally, I want to get back to more on the DRCV damper and how it makes this bike rip. On a typical full suspension rig, when you compress the suspension into the apex of a corner, the suspension, (if it is air sprung) , will typically get into a portion of the travel that makes the air spring ramp up its spring curve. Right when you really do not necessarily want that to happen, you suddenly have a suspension that is too stiff to track the trail properly. The DRCV, with its linear spring rate, doesn’t ramp up. I find that this keeps the rear wheel planted better in the corners, allowing me to attack the corner more aggressively and go through the apex with more speed. I do this knowing that the DRCV will help keep that wheel tracking, and not bouncing around due to a stiff, rising spring rate, like other shocks sometimes will do. It is part of what makes the Rumblefish so fun to ride off road.
What it doesn’t do is give you the inches of travel necessary to do wilder stunts. like big drops, or crazy “B lines” on chunky trails, like a longer travel bike will allow, but in every other sense, the Rumblefish will do things much like a bike with much more travel will. However; it isn’t a bike with a sky high bottom bracket, or one that won’t climb out of the saddle. The Rumblefish kind of melds some of the “big bike” capability to the XC bike fit and feel in corners. A good mix for many riders, I think. It does have a bit of a slack steering feel to the front end, what with the slightly slacker head angle, but with the big offset on the reliable, solid Fox 120mm travel fork, (G2 = 51mm), it still gets around the tight corners and trees quite acceptably. Slow speed maneuvers are not met with a heavy, sluggish handle bar feel either. Another plus from the G2 geometry here.
Conclusions: The Rumblefish is a bit of a conundrum on paper. Trail bike promises with only 110mm rear travel. Yet, on the trail, the bike delivers a feeling of a suspension with much more travel than it has. The DRCV damper does what it is advertised to do, and the improvements to the rear swing arm design are a welcomed thing for this bike, (and the rest of the HiFi line as well). The front to rear balance feels good on this bike, and lateral stiffness is above average for bikes of this class. The bicycle climbs reasonably well out of the saddle, but don’t expect a XC-like snap here. Seated climbing is really good, and the suspension grips loose, rough, or soft trail contours with no issues. The limiting factors here are only your legs and tires. I loved the way the bike settled into corners and ripped through them at high speed.
So what isn’t to like? Well, for starters Fisher still could work on that tire clearance. It is better, but a true 2.4″er on a wide rim will be rubbing the stays. On a bike like this, wider tires on wider rims are going to have to be capable of being fitted. Hopefully Fisher Collective* engineers will be getting to that in a future iteration of the Rumblefish. For now, I would suspect most 2.4 inchers on 28mm rims might clear with minimal clearance. The travel at 110mm is excellent, and makes one wonder how more might be squeezed out of this sort of design. Of course, that will mean a higher bottom bracket height, and possibly a loss of cornering prowess, but perhaps a new model geared towards All Mountain use might be appealing to add to the line up with this design as its basis.
Finally, the DRCV is awesome, but it is a bit fussy to set up. If you don’t go strictly by the book and if you don’t have a patient, methodical countenance, the DRCV may prove to be a boat anchor more than a rear damper. Given the proper respect for the set up procedure though, the DRCV will reward you with an uncanny bottomless feeling rear suspension. Is that a negative or a positive for you? Each person will have to decide. I will only say that after I had the DRCV dialed in, it was a component I didn’t have to deal with much, if at all afterward. An occasional check on air pressure was all that was necessary.
I would recommend the Rumblefish highly to anyone looking for a trail bike with big wheels that gobbles up rough terrain, rails corners, and feels solid underneath you. Huckers and extreme chunk riders will probably still want more rear wheel travel, so this probably won’t fit your bill. Everyone else looking for a great performing trail bike should put the Fisher Collective* Rumblefish on their short list for 2011.
*Note: I know it is “The Fisher Collection by Trek”, but I’m campaigning for a shortened moniker here and I like “The Fisher Collective” better, okay?
Editor’s Note: Thanks to the former “Gary Fisher Bikes” brand and Travis Ott for all they did in helping us understand the Rumblefish and Hi Fi models. This bike was provided at no cost for review and we were not bribed nor paid for this review. We strove to give our honest thoughts and opinions throughout.
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29″ guys – got another suggestion for you – how about a look at what kinds of bikes people are buying? As in, what % of ‘enthusiast’ level bikes are 5″ 26″ bikes/4″ 29ers, hardtail 29er, rigid, 6″, ect etc.
Your comments about ‘only’ having 110mm of rear travel made me think “only?” I know different parts of the country have different terrain, so people prefer different kinds of rides, so it’d be interesting to see what most people are buying. Where I live hardtails are great choices, even with 26″ wheels. I personally ride a rigid bike, and it doesn’t slow me down at bit. There’s a few sections of trail here than there where I wouldn’t mind some squish, but for the most part I don’t need it. Before my Jabber I had an ‘06 Anthem, and I ran the suspension VERY VERY stiff.
But, everyone likes different stuff. There’s plenty of people riding 5″ travel bikes here too, so, to each his own. But it would be interesting to see sales percentages.
Nice review by the way. Keep up the good work! (and if you ever want a tester in the southeast………;) )
Sounds like that rear shock would be too much trouble for most people to set up.
Most of the people I run into haven`t figured out how to put air in presta tubes yet.
Interesting points here about the travel alluded and future Roscoe 29er. Exactly will it be Roscoe or Scratch 29er with Reba 140mm? If so why hadn’t a 140mm frame appered before the Rumblefish did? Reba 140mm could have been bought by Fisher and Trek collectively with G2.
I smell slow progress on 29er front from Trek anyway in terms of broadening the offer towards light trail and am 29ers.
Through- axle front and rear for 2011
GT,
I’m ready to pull the trigger on a Turner Sultan. Any wisdom you could share on how the two compare ride wise? The Turner gave me that same endless travel feel with basically no bob. Despite it’s travel and wheelbase it felt quite nimble as well. I’m looking for do everything bike that will find itself in an occasional race.
@dman: If we could get those types of figures from the industry, I would shut down Twenty Nine Inches and become an industry consultant.
But I think you answer the question in your comment when you say, “everyone likes different stuff”. Why do people buy an FS bike over a hard tail? Hard to say. We have customers in the shop where I work that have purchased 2-3,000 dollar FS bikes to ride on bike paths, paved ones, mind you, and ask if we can put a kickstand on it. 
Things like that are going to happen all the time. I am not sure you could ever really get a clear picture of “need” for a product through sales figures, but it is about all we have to go on now. Thing is, each company is pretty secretive about specifics, so it keeps the picture cloudy.
@skidder: Hopefully the LBS’s are taking the DRCV to heart and passing on the knowledge to customers. It is really worthwhile to figure it out because it makes the bike rip.
@Davidcopperfield: I’ve answered you this before, last September. Remember? Be patient!
@prphoto: Yup! Basically that’s the deal with the 2011 Rumblefish’s.
@JG: Well, I see the Rumblefish as a good choice for a 24hr course that is really rough. Other than that, I would choose a HiFi. Basically it is the same bike with a better out of the saddle climbing feel and better feeling acceleration due to the different Fox shock. The snappier handling of a HiFi would maybe make me want it for a trail/sometimes racing bike too. The Sultan is a multi-pivot design, and while it may feel plush, I know a lot of those designs feel “draggy” while climbing out of the saddle compared to say, a Tall Boy, Epic Marathon, or HiFi. (Yes- the Tall Boy is a multi-pivot design too, but it feels pretty decent when getting on the gas)
I don’t know about you and your preferred riding, but if my rides were more technical and I didn’t give a hoot about being on a really light weight bike, I’d stick with the solid platform of the Rumblefish. With the ABP on board, I think it has an edge. (Not sure if Turner is going to the DW Split Pivot, which is ABP-like, but I’m betting he does, and that would be a different story there perhaps.)
I rode a Rumblefish 2 at a Trek demo day at Lake Accotink and fell in love. After riding a Rumblefish my 26er HiFi Deluxe felt like a Huffy. Will the more affordable Rumblefish 1 have similar handling and plushness as the Rumblefish 2?
@fesch: Handling should be the same, as should the DRCV rear end. There may be some finer detail differences on the front fork, but essentially, it should feel the same.
@ Guitar Ted so now that we have a 140mm Reba and Trek can get G2 lowers then it is being built?
Also major redesign in this trek single pivot suspension into four bar linkeage with ABP and Full floater might be interesting. Even plusher, more sensitive and lower ratio.
Ive been on mine six months, 1500km and still have a grin from ear to ear. The DRCV shock is a winner.
Any sense of how a DRCV would fit on other bikes – specifically, a Tallboy, or even an ‘08 HiFi? I see some surfacing on eBay, etc. now…
@Lee T: The canister goes beyond the top mount a bit, so that may limit the applications. Because the upper mounting point is slightly wider than the shock body, it will most likely be the thing that stops it from being used on other frames. For instance, the ‘08 HiFi wouldn’t accept it.
Can you compare the Rumblefish with the Stumpy FSR your just tested? Specifically, four questions…
1) Which bike felt more slack? Was there a noticeable difference in the two in that aspect?
2) Brain vs. Boostvalve… Would you liken the Brain to basically 15 levels of propedal or something totally different? For example, is Propedal level 2 on the Fisher’s RP23 equal to the Brain halfway on?
3) Rear end stiffness comparison?
4) Ground clearance?
thanks…
@pdumas: Unfortunately for your questions, Grannygear rode the FSR and I’ve spent more time on the Rumblefish. Grannygear did get a demo loop ride in at Bootleg Canyon on the Rumblefish though, so he might have an inkling. I can make the following comments though…..
1) Grannygear said repeatedly to me that the Stumpy fely bigger, slacker, and more ‘point and shoot” than any other Specialized he has tried, so it definitely has a “bigger bike feel”. The Rumblefish has a hint of that feel, but with the offset on their forks being longer, and resulting trail figure shorter, it won’t feel like the Stumpjumper does.
2) Grannygear said the MiniBrain on the FSR was “tamer” than on the Epic. I suppose you do have more levels of adjustment, but I don’t have any idea where in the Brain’s range the ProPedal on the Rumblefish would fall into. I can say that the Rumblefish isn’t terrible out of the saddle climbing. In fact, some folks think it climbs better out of the saddle than in it.
@pdumas
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7168264&postcount=3
grannygear
I have been on my Rumblefish 1 for about 5 months now and am loving it. I was actually having to convince myself to get back on my hardtail as I am loving the rumblefish on all trail types.
I agree with Guitar Ted in that it can be a bit fiddly to get the shock/suspension set up properly, even now I think I could play with the pressures a little to get it “perfect”. I would also agree that it does feel better climbing out of the saddle than in it.
Oh Guitar Ted, I reckon your suggestion of the Fisher Collective hits the nail on the head – I was sad to hear that Fisher as a brand will be no more, being one of the ‘original’ brands in MTB and all that. Lets hope that it does not get totally swallowed up by the Trek Monolith.
Got my Rumblefish 1 in May after much research; convinced myself to pay over £2K for a bike!
heart got it’s way, brain went off in sulk.
I’m 6 5, 17st, long limbs; my problems here in the Uk were finding a supplier that had frames in stock for me to try out. Discovered that Chevin Cycles have a great 29er range, and found my Rum’fish, 23 inch frame-monster. My first proper bike. it goes like stink, over, under, through, round and across stuff i wouldn’t have even considered on my previous mtb. It feels like I’m on a 4 wheel drive goin downhill it’s that stable! It climbs really well, only let down by my legs and lungs.
I’m not experienced enough to comment on rear sus set up, but I set a pretty high pressure on shock, and haven’t got anywhere near bottoming out and hardly remember losin the back end. In fact it feels like it’s on rails.
I’ve gone from tentative red run pedlin to nailing black run stuff at trail centres in North Wales and Northern England, it also great for long rides in the hills, Rum’fish has given me great confidence.
would like to thank above guys, amongst others for unwitting with their reviews and chit chat pokin me in the right direction when I was ummin and arrin prior to me partin with the cash..
Great bike
Any recommendations for 29er hardtail with similar frame size would be great.
Cheers