With the recent bombshell dropped on the mountain biking community recently concerning the folding in of the Gary Fisher Bikes brand into the Trek brand, there has been a lot of questions and concerns voiced by the riders and readers of Twenty Nine Inches. So we thought that we would hit up the principals involved. The folks behind the Fisher Collection. We gathered together Gary Fisher, Aaron Mock, who is the Gary Fisher Collection Product Manager, we have the Gary Fisher Collection Brand Manager, Travis Ott, and Gary Fisher Collection Graphic Designer, Jesse LaLonde. We put some of your questions and thoughts in front of these guys and this is the result: Twenty Nine Inches Interviews The “Gary Fisher Collection” Team.
First of all, I wanted to start out by saying that the day of the announcement I had a chat with Travis Ott and Gary Fisher about the changes. Without getting into details, the message was clear: Gary Fisher, the man, is going to be a very important part of this change. He’ll have an even more “hands on” approach with regards to the bicycles and with the marketing side. The other clear message was that Gary Fisher isn’t being shoved aside in a corporate way. In reality, the Gary Fisher Collection will bring more ideas to fruition in a quicker manner than Gary could have gotten done with the previous arrangement. Gary Fisher is an excited, pumped up dude about right now, and his enthusiasm for the switch is definitely palpable and infectious.
How that plays out in the future will be hinted at in the interview. Let’s get to the introductions………..
Our main interviewees are Aaron Mock– Gary Fisher Collection Product Manager. Aaron is a 15 year veteran of Trek Bikes. He started out in the Sales Department. Worked as the Trek/Fisher Outside Rep in the Carolinas for 3 years before starting in the Product Department. He then worked his way up to Fisher Product Manager and is currently overseeing all bike development at Trek.
Travis Ott- Gary Fisher Collection Brand Manager. After six years of working at the marketing agency, Planet Propaganda, Travis was hired by Trek between laps of a 24-hour race. He started off as Assistant Brand Manager for Gary Fisher, Bontrager, and LeMond. He then worked up to Gary Fisher Brand Manager and now the Gary Fisher Collection Brand Manager.
We also have some input from Jesse LaLonde– Gary Fisher Collection Graphic Designer. Equally accomplished racer and designer. Jesse is former SSWC champ, Chequamegon 40 winner (on a singlespeed no less), and overall WORS champ. Jesse is also behind the Bare Knuckle Brigade and has done design work for Twin Six. Jesse started at Trek as a Service Manager at the Trek Store of Madison then moved over to Trek HQ as the Trek Pavement Bike Graphics Designer. He then moved over to become the Gary Fisher Bikes Graphic Designer. He’s currently overseeing all of the Fisher Collection graphics and taking on a special bike graphic projects as well.
And of course……..Gary Fisher – The Man: Cycling visionary, proprietor, and eccentric. Founded a company called “Mountain Bikes” with friend Charlie Kelly. In 1993 Gary Fisher and Trek formed a business relationship. In 2010, Trek’s Gary Fisher Collection is introduced.
The 2011 Superfly 100
Twenty Nine Inches: Wow guys! This is a big change, and a lot for everyone to digest. I think the business side of the equation is well understood, but can you tell us how “The Fisher Collection” works now and how it will be looking a couple years down the road? How does Gary fit into this?
Aaron Mock: The Collection Core Team will remain the same. Gary is a part of that. These are the people that have developed all of the great Fisher products in the past and will do so in the future. They simply have greater access to internal resources to execute even more compelling products.
Travis Ott: For those who knew that Trek owned Gary Fisher since ’93, they may ask, how’s this change anything? But as a Trek bike, Gary’s visionary, left-of-center ideas get fast tracked to market. This means Gary and the Fisher Collection team gets to continue bringing ideas that further cycling as a whole.
TNI: Will there ever be any “Trek 29″ers” outside the umbrella of the Fisher Collection? If so, would they be different, and how?
Aaron: No. One of the issues that we were running into was that dealers were asking for Trek 29ers. We did a bunch of R&D and it is really hard when the gang keeps looking back at the Fisher philosophy and saying how good those bikes already are. It came down to the old adage that if you have 2 bikes, 1 is still the best. Now that same group can simply focus on continuing to make the Trek Gary Fisher bikes the best they can be and leverage all of the great history and innovation that’s already there.
TNI: As for the Fisher Collection, everything we’ve seen from Gary Fisher Bikes in the past remains the same, right? (For example, G2 geometry)
Aaron: Yep. Again, the biggest change for the Trek Gary Fisher Collection is the skin. The basis for what’s underneath and how those products came to life still remains the same. Now we just have more people thinking about great solutions for riders.
TNI: What does having the 29″er line rolled into Trek mean for us, the riders? Will we be seeing things happening that perhaps we would not have before, or that would have taken longer to see to an end product?
Aaron: The real benefit here will be speed to market. I think that you’ll see accelerated development and newer ground breaking technologies at an increased pace.
Travis: In addition, it means more choice for riders. Trek brings with it a bigger market, bigger audience. That’ll mean more choice for riders. You’ll see things like 2 spec levels for Superfly 100 and Superfly hardtails. Lower-priced 29ers. More WSD 29ers. More singlespeed options. It just throws more weight behind what we’re doing.
The Super Fly Single Speed frameset.
TNI: Now, about those graphics. We are getting a lot of comments on those. What is the process behind that part of the Fisher Collection?
Aaron: I’ll let Jesse answer that. In my opinion, he crushed it. The line looks super cohesive and it needed to mature as a result of the change. Jesse is one of the original 29er Crew members (back in the day when there were only 6). So, you’re getting the real deal!
Jesse LaLonde: From the conception of the Collection our mantra was loosely based on the idea of Gary taking over the mother ship. You know, coming in with a FSU attitude and just cranking out the bikes that Gary wants. After a number of round table meetings and reviews including Gary and the core team, I cracked open the crayolas. The approach was simple… Keep it simple. The streamlined approach and limited color palette was a clear way to create a family look along with clearly identifying the brand. Being a long time Fisher rider and friend, I was blown away by Gary’s involvement in the process. For all we know, Gary did just take over the mothership.
The 2011 HiFi Plus.
TNI: Is there any way to make images we see actually look like the products? It seems to me that catalog/web shots never live up to the “real deal”. Do you find that frustrating?
Travis: It is kinda frustrating. I’ve seen the bikes in person. I know how dialed all the little details are and how striking they are. The bikes are bold, yet understated and don’t represent in a profile photo as well as in person. I tell people to check out the product video at: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/collection/gary_fisher/bikes/ When people see the bikes in the video or in person, they’ll be digging what they have going on. I promise.
The Klunker inspired Sawyer.
TNI: You know, everyone I talk to now has the Sawyer on their list of “lust-worthy” bikes. (Not that the rest of the bikes are not cool!) Tell us about the idea behind that bike and the possible influences in that design.
Aaron: This was one that came along as a result of wanting to celebrate having 29er for commercial sale for 10 years. The goal was to take that classic aesthetic, but make a modern performing bike. Nick Zeidler was the Industrial Designer on that project and I think he really did a fantastic job of making the classic look relevant today.
Travis: I recall a product launch in Durango. We thought that a klunker-esque bike that was able to rip singletrack and also ready to cruise the downtown streets of Durango would be a great. Then we started talking about celebrating 10 years of 29ers in the marketplace. Ta-da! The Sawyer.
TNI: Will there ever be a frame only version of the Sawyer?
Aaron: We have to build some bikes first! But, someday.
The $599.99 Marlin 29″er.
TNI: Let’s hear about the lower priced models. I’m excited to see that, and I think it is a subject that is flying under the radar here a bit. How do you guys see this sector of the market?
Aaron: We see this as a really important move forward. The key for us has always been to offer affordable performance products. Last year there were a couple of inexpensive 29ers in the market that really weren’t up to par. We didn’t feel that the parts that we would have to hang on the bikes were up to standard. So, we worked pretty hard with the suspension makers to come up with some really reliable product so that regardless of the price point, a rider’s 1st experience on a Fisher Collection bike will be a good one.
Travis: I’ll go a step further and say this is HUGE! There are dealers out there already starting out new mountain bikers on 29ers because they’re more stable and that makes new riders more confident. Lower priced, more stable 29ers will get new riders stoked that much quicker and potentially grow the mountain bike market for us. All great things.
The X-Caliber WSD model.
TNI: Also, I am glad to see the WSD 29″ers. We are noticing a trend in women being interested in big wheels and when they try them, it just clicks. Will we see more of the WSD 29″er in the future?
Aaron: This is one of those that’s been a long time in coming, probably too long. We’ve had some really dedicated riders out there asking for this for a while and we just didn’t have the bandwidth. It’s a great example of how the new relationship is allowing us to do more than we would have been able to manage in the past. The bikes are awesome. The 14.5 has an 80mm fork. The 15.5 and the 17 have 100mm forks. I think female riders will be stoked.
Travis: Will we see more women’s 29ers? Let’s see how reception to the current batch of WSD 29ers goes, but all indications are a big ‘oh yeah.’ Our Women’s Demo Team has been getting a lot of requests for 29ers. And with a XS 14.5” 29er in our size lineup for the ladies, we’re bringing something new to the 29er world.
TNI: Finally, this one is for you, Gary: You’ve been an influence and a main character in mountain biking for well over 30 years now. What’s next? Where do you go from here?
Gary Fisher: Besides next year’s 2012 bikes, I would like to see American cross-country racing make a comeback. High school racing in every state of the country. And more urban mountain biking.
Editor’s Note: So there you have it. The inside look at the direction of The Fisher Collection. It is this writer’s opinion that this will end up being a stronger 29″er line up because of the changes, and judging from the recent 2011 releases I’ve seen so far, The Fisher Collection has its work cut out for them. It looks like the timing was right for this change. The only question mark remains is how will you, the rider react to this in the future. How the loss of “Gary Fisher Bikes” as a stand alone brand affects your buying decisions. Time will tell.
Thanks to The Fisher Collection Team for the time they gave for this interview.
I had 4 Fishers since 1999. A Mt. Tam, Rig, X Caliber, and Superfly.
Those are uglier than any I have seen yet. The bikes look like xxxx.
Even uglier than my Tan X-Caliber or Blue Mt. Tam.
What the xxxx?
Just saw this:
http://www.cyclingdirt.org/videos/speaker/7168-matt-opperman
300 grams lighter than before !!!
That’s crazy !
@Skidder: Thanks for commenting, but I have to let you know that the language is not tolerated here. I have edited your comment to reflect this.
@Gilhooley: Yeah, it’s interesting to note that the “Madone” technology Matt talks about which is responsible for the weight savings is on a non-OCLV frame made overseas. In fact, I have it on good authority that we are going to start seeing more of that sort of thing in the road line up from Trek.
Hope they bring back the steel bikes . Wonder if trek will keep the 29er crew? I remember the first mtb bikes that had fisher desigh stickers on the frames . Let the good times roll.
@GT I’d like to ask a question for GF collection team, which I asked before but didn’t get a straiaght answer. Will GF Collection expand on 29er versions of Trek bikes?
Let’s say Trek decides to make a 29er version of Fuel Ex or Scratch so will they brand it under GF collection umbrella and paint it using its scheme?
So all 26ers will be branded Trek only and their 29er versions will be under GF collection from Trek?
Or simply GF collection will never have Full floater and will stick with single pivot forever?
Honestly I dont buy it one bit. Sounds like a ton of industry spin with the big smoke screen of progress. when in reality it’s just more downsizing. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame any company for taking care of biz it just seems like the bike industry does this every single time. More smoke and mirrors. Look at GT. It went from a ginormous compound in Irvine to a 1 room office.
From the interview, it sounds like the 29er line up with not include any existing or future Treks (David Copperfield)
Yep! Only 6 series Madone will be OCLV for 2011. Everything else will be overseas.
@Jay well it is pretty bad. No expansion in their line. I expected something like a few 29er versions of Trek bikes introduced under GF Collection Realm. Let’s face it no new 29er subsequent to the merge? Comparing GF/Trek 29ers to others is sparse.
Full floater carbon something like Rumblefish with 120-130mm rear suspension would rock. There is Reba 140mm why not making a Remedy 29″ or Roscoe 29″? Both carbon option and maxle 150x12mm on the rear. How about a four bar linkage of some sort with full floater?
I was expecting something along these lines not just stupid and dull business repainting and dealers deals etc. Marketing boredom.
I would like someone (Mark-GT) ask this particular question to GF collection team.
Why 26ers are still prevalent at Trek?
If you don’t like the graphics, just wait a year, because they will undoubtedly look different.
My only real problem with the demise of the Gary Fisher brand is the Fisher only dealers (many of which were a large part of the success of the whole 29er movement) that got dropped and the loss of a long-standing brand whose roots reached backed to the beginning of mountain biking. Otherwise, its all good.
And I agree that that catalog shots of most of the new line make them look pretty dull. I am sure in person they look better.
@Joel I meant the fact that no 29er expenasion was made at Trek or GF simultaneously with the great merge. No more FS under GF umbrella etc. The appearance? No caveats form my side. Just getting some “Trek 29ers” ( out of 26ers) under GF collection umbrella would be glorious.
In the future Sctrach can be 29er under GF collection and 26er original Trek.
The dullness is that they just merged and no earth shuttering 29ers showed up with it.
@Davidcopperfield: “@GT I’d like to ask a question for GF collection team, which I asked before but didn’t get a straiaght answer. Will GF Collection expand on 29er versions of Trek bikes?”
See my second question? Aaron Mock answered, “No”. And furthermore, he explained that they didn’t see any advantage in making a “Trek” 29″er design. See his following quote:
“We did a bunch of R&D and it is really hard when the gang keeps looking back at the Fisher philosophy and saying how good those bikes already are.”
So, you see, Trek designs didn’t translate well into the 29″er format, the Fisher designs are actually better, in the designers eyes at least.
And who is to say that something better than what you have in mind isn’t already on the drawing boards?
So chill out, dude. You never know what might happen now that Trek’s full force is behind the 29″er concept. You’ll just have to wait and see, like the rest of us.
DC, I was responding to Skidder with regard to the graphics. No offense, but I usually only get part way through your comments before I move on. Your issues with 29er design are just not my issues.
@Joel: I keep seeing the Fisher dealer thing being bandied about in forums, and for some of those dealers, it does suck, but keep in mind, it isn’t like we’re in the know as to how many dealers are actually being forced out. Of the approximately 600 Fisher dealers, 400 were also Trek dealers. That leaves about 200 that may or may not pick up the Trek line. Trek has a much, much bigger dealer base, and because of that, some Trek dealers were in the same proximity/city as Fisher dealers. Something has to give, and business decisions really are hard to swallow sometimes. (I know- I lost a job once due to a “business decision”)
So, yes, some dealers are getting dumped on, and some consumers are going to be forced to make new decisions. I wish the best for all those involved, as forced change is really tough to deal with. My sincere hope is that the actual number of these instances where Fisher dealers are being forced out is small in number.
I enjoy watching the clip. Thanks for the link. 300g is an impressive outcome for a rigorous diet. Yet, I am not convinced BB90 is the way to go.
The “standard” (if it can be called such) I vote for is SRAM’s PF30.
For anyone that does not know, FP30 accommodates BB30 cranks, yet as opposed to BB30 shell, does not have the bearings pressed directly into the frame, but instead a nylon sleeve, encapsulating the bearings, is pressed into the frame.
BB90 offers two advantage over threaded 73mm BB:
1) The shell is much longer (88mm), which offers a greater landing area for the chainstays and seattube. Thus, tire clearance can be more easily achieved, and the seat tube can be wider and consequently stiffer.
2) The absent of threaded area facilitates a lighter BB shell
However…BB90 still uses 24mm bearings and works with 24mm cranks.
In contrast, PF30 (and BB30) employes 30mm bearings, which are longer lasting, and works with BB30 cranks, which have a shorter and wider spindle, made of aluminum. They are lighter and stiffer than 24mm spindle. The PF30/BB30 also get rid of the threaded area so it is lighter from the frame perspective.
So…PFT30 will give you a lighter frame/crank, stiffer crank and longer lasting bearings than BB90. The only advantage BB90 has is the wider shell and more accommodating landing area.
By the way, BB30 crankset has the potential to offer the narrowest possible Q-Factor. No manufacture has taken full advantage of it yet, but maybe one day…
Any one with the right mind can see that the future does not belong to BB90. It is ephemeral, destined to be relegated into to the annals of cycling history.
Whey Trek pushes it? Maybe not to concede to Cannodale/Specialized and join their wagon? Or just to have a propriety standard with the economic benefits that come along?
The 29er Crew will contiue to exist and actually take a larger role in the Trek/Fisher/29er movement. We all received a video email from Gary on launch day, along with our new team kits, which are simply awesome. And for all of the “Trek killed Fisher” believers out there, the entire idea was brought to the table by Gary Fisher himself. Nothing but good will come of this, just hang on to see.
Oh my…
My XL first year Superfly is just about 1300g. I CANNOT imagine the ne frame being 300g lighter than that, not even in the largest size. Also, I think a 1kg frame is just wrong
Did you hear that in the video? Willow Koerber, barely 5 foot tall, doesn’t need the new smaller size of 29″ers.
I’ve been telling it for years, a well designed G2 bike can fit a 4’11″ rider with comfort! Gary knew this all the better, and got it to happen, coolness!
I like the Gary took over the mothership idea.
And interestingly, they don’t want Trek 29″ers. That will bring a tension point. Who’ll buy 26″ers, 5 years from now? This means another question automatically : who’ll buy a Trek MTB (non-Gary Fisher Collection), 5 years from now?
An all-29″ race team, ouch, that is so hot!
GT- they mentioned that the geometry is still G2. However the chainstay’s are longer in 2011 and all the bikes are spec’d with 100mm forks. The HT and ST angles are the same as 2010. So did they redo the frame to keep the same angles at 100mm travel or are they using the old 80mm geometry numbers, even though they are changing to 100mm forks?
Also noticed the Seat tube/top tube junction has been changed on the AL frames too.
Another vote for PF30 from me. Limiting BB axle diameter is a direct loss of stiffness and increase of total crank weight. And, a larger hole makes a frame lighter.
@nitrousjunky: I have seen several discrepancies in the specs as well. I would give them time to get it all straightened out. I did get that the aluminum frames have been redone and that the Paragon uses the press fit BB as well as an E2 head tube.
Since the frames are new, I would suspect that the frames were tweaked to reflect the longer travel forks, and to preserve the G2 geometry characteristics.
@GT I can’t find any hint saying that they will not bring Trek 26ers under GF umbrella transforming them into 29er.
They say that the only place for 29ers is the GF collection, not Trek genuinely. And I’d like to suggest them to make current or future Trek 26ers into 29ers with GF “signature”. GF collection will incorporate the following 29ers: Scratch, Top Fuel, Fuexl Ex.
That’s it. It hasn’t been addressed in the interview.
For reference:
TNI: Will there ever be any “Trek 29?ers” outside the umbrella of the Fisher Collection? If so, would they be different, and how?
Aaron: No. One of the issues that we were running into was that dealers were asking for Trek 29ers. We did a bunch of R&D and it is really hard when the gang keeps looking back at the Fisher philosophy and saying how good those bikes already are. It came down to the old adage that if you have 2 bikes, 1 is still the best. Now that same group can simply focus on continuing to make the Trek Gary Fisher bikes the best they can be and leverage all of the great history and innovation that’s already there.
The names of the Trek bikes are just the…. names. GF can call them whatever he likes in his Collection. My point is that a full floater reduces weight and works plusher and dfinitely a carbon frame 29″ with such a decent design is going to be ultimate long travel XC solution. I don’t care for their policy.
@DC, Looks like they don’t have a bike in their line for you. I am sure the people that were involved had to make a difficult choice when it came to the future of Trek and Gary Fisher. I see you on a couple forums as some kind of armchair industry insider. But you and I don’t work in the industry, so maybe we shouldn’t tell other people how to do their jobs.
If you don’t like their policy, buy a bike from someone else.
@Cloxxki, couldn’t agree more.
I have to say, I am a bit disappointed with the whole thing. The ONLY reason for this was simple; Trek was losing market share. What made Fisher unique was the fact that you could only get them at certain stores. It wasnt a bad thing. I realize that this will essentially have more store availability, but it could also be overkill as well. Why would anyone buy a 6000 when you can, or could get a “Fisher” Mamba for the same price? A single speed with a Suntour fork? Arrgghh. Trek Missed the boat with the whole goofy 69er thing and saw the error and had to make move quickly. What is going to happen is the same thing that happened to Klein, people are going to see it as a TREK, not a Fisher and move on. The Gary Fisher Collection? Are they going to start selling them at Macy’s? Sounds like a clothing line. The colors are horrible. Looks like a typical Trek. Fishers 09 and 10 graphics were awesome. Very stately, but not overdone. What is with Trek and not using some color? I know this doesnt make the bike handle better or change the ride quality, but for goodness sakes, through in some oranges and yellows and greens. People are going to start to react the same way when GT, Schwinn and alot of others met there downfall. They just slapped a TREK DECAL ON A FISHER BIKE SYNDROME. I am not saying Gary is a sell out, but I think it is going to create a that feel for alot of people who wanted something other than a Trek product, but still getting something under the same umbrella. Fisher had a following, and I think there is going to be a fine line on how it is marketed.
@steve: Thanks for your comments. I have some reaction to those points you made here:
#1: On Trek losing market share- Maybe they were, and if so, a business decision to gain market share would be……………….good business!
There are emotional and perception issues that may be rubbed the wrong way by “business decisions”, and I will be the first to say that I get that. But to criticize a business for trying to be more successful is just weird. That’s what businesses are supposed to do. Be more successful.
#2: On Fisher’s market position- You rightly hit the mark here. I would think that Trek will be winnowing out product overlap in an aggressive manner for 2012. They already have axed a lot of Fisher SKU’s. You will see Trek SKU’s getting trimmed back once the dealers can give the home office some feedback. As far as “overkill” goes, I don’t see that. The Fisher Collection will be put in front of a lot of folks that have never seen a Fisher/29″er before. I think an increase in awareness will result in good things.
#3: On specs and colors- I’ve been around the bicycle business since the early 90′s. your criticisms of the spec and color palette are commonplace complaints that are seen every year with all bicycle product lines. Next year, the colors could change, the spec could change, and you would be happy, but someone that digs this years spec and colors may hate it. The world keeps turning ’round.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that no bicycle line hits it on all cylinders in any given year.
#4: On market perception: Here is another solid point. You are absolutely correct in that how this move is perceived by those actually plunking down their hard earned ducats will be what determines if this is well received or not. Time will tell.
Thanks for your insight. I am certainly not saying that is wrong to expand your business, but you dont do it at the expense of “possibly” hurting a successful product and name. What Trek should have done is seen the writing on the wall from the start-they are not dumb-and teamed with Gary to do there own line in some way or fashion. Let gary have the singlespeed and hardtail market and Trek focus on the dualie gigs or something in that direction. I have always thought Trek dual suspensions designs were superior to Fishers anyway. On color schemes-Trek refuses to go out on a limb and do something different for a change. They have been stuck on the same color palette since early 2000′s. When a customer goes into a store, color plays a big part. Let’s see black, red or blue. They start to look like everyone elses line. A Niner cannot be mistaken. I have a Ferrous from 08 with that insanely cool Devo blue paint. You know exactly what it is when you see it. The fact that Trek is “hiding ” the logos on the top and downtubes is a hint as well. Why not call it the Trek 29er Collection? Retain the Fisher name, but putting Trek in the model allows it to be sold in non-Fisher markets. This is all theory, but a thought.
First and foremost you’re going to ride the bike and it’s the ride quality that comes first. I’d trust anything with the Gary Fisher name on it to satisfy that part of the equation. BUT…I have to say you want your bike to look good too..an area where GF has always been strong… the looks were always cool. WHAT HAPPENED HERE? If you don’t like dull gray and utilitarian looking you’re probably not going to want one of these models. Hey, i LIKE gray, but looking through the collection i found it hard to find ANY of the bikes appealing except perhaps the top of the range models which wouldn’t be in my budget I’m afraid. Bring back the whites, blacks, blues, greens, and browns of previous years PLEASE!
Oh well. one more year to wait for a better job with the crayolas.
Hope the bikes will be successful though. I7d like a Gary Fisher bike in the future.
The Superfly singlespeed frame gets my vote out of this bunch.
Steve
Sorry, just noticed that the previous post was by a Steve too and wanted to point out that I’m another Steve. Yes those colors look like they dripped from the Trek paintbrush.
An experiment with a different look that somehow leaves a lot to be desired.
Steve again
I like grey too, but not GGGGRRREY too! Road bikes have flash-so should we! Where is Jackson Pollack when he is needed.
I really want the new cobia but man that color scheme! I honestly dont know if I could get used to that or not. The patterns I could live with but lets do something with the mango guys.