Here is the second in my series of reports on drop bars for off road use. You can find a historical perspective on drop bar use and why some folks prefer drop bars off road in the post entitled “Drop Bars Off Road: Why?” In this post I will briefly give some pointers on how to look at drop bar set up and also I will lay out some concerns about going with such a set up. These will be helpful pointers to those of you considering a drop bar specific 29″er like the Singular Gryphon or the Salsa Cycles Fargo.
The Set Up: I’ve written a bunch of words concerning this topic and so have some other pretty smart, experienced off road drop bar riders. I won’t be going into a detailed set up procedure here, but here are some salient points to consider though that will help you understand what it takes to achieve proper drop bar set up for trail riding.
Hand positioning: This is the linchpin of the whole set up procedure. You must first determine what your primary hand position is going to be for your riding needs and set up from that point. Off road-centric drop bar set ups work best typically if the rider is “in the drops”, gripping the extensions. Trail impacts will force the bars into your hands, instead of bouncing your hands off the bar, as this would on a flat bar set up, or if you were “on the hoods”. So, if you are planning on doing mostly trail rides with your drop bar set up, the extensions will need to be set up as your primary grip position.
If you are doing multi-surface rides, you may want to make the hoods a good place to ride on your smoother sections of your routes. This will help dictate what your specific set up will be. You will want to select your bars, stem, and frame to allow for all of the hand positions to be usable equally. If you will be doing nothing but paved rides, commuting, or casual rides on paths, the hoods may be where you will spend the majority of your riding time. In this case, a more traditional road bike set up will suffice, although a frame like a Rawland Draakar, Singular Gryphon, or Salsa Cycles Fargo is probably overkill for such pursuits. You might even consider not using drop bars if you think you will rarely ever be in the drops.
Whatever you decide on for your primary hand position will determine the rest of your set up. I am specifically focusing on the off road, or the extreme opposite of road bike set up. Modern road bike set up is “hood-centric” while traditional off road drop bar set up is “extension-centric”, if you will. They couldn’t be more different, and therefore, it is important to think “outside of the box” if you have a “road bike view” on drop bars. What would be ideal for off road drop bar set up is to have your hands in the drops on trail sections at the same height and reach as your mountain bike flat bar set up. That means the top of the drop bar and the hoods may be in an awkwardly high position for use as hand positions for many instances, but not all. Remember, we are in the drops most of the time, so making the other hand positions marginal for use is okay here.
So, why not use a traditional flat bar? Good question, and I would start you out by having you read the first post in this series. Obviously, if you read that post carefully, you will begin to see that some riders like the ergonomic position better, and feel that their performance is enhanced. A traditional flat bar doesn’t do the same things in that sense. So, the only real connection between the flat bar and drop bar for off road is the relative height from the ground and distance from the saddle that the riders hands should be in. Otherwise the ergonomics are quite different.
Drop Bar Specific Frames: To achieve the proper set up, there are two ways to do it on a mountain bike. First, and maybe the easiest way, is to get a frame specifically meant for drop bar use. The head tube is usually taller, and the top tubes are often slightly shorter. Take a look at this Rawland Draakar as an example of this sort of frame.
Notice the extended head tube which keeps the rider from having to use a stack of head set spacers. The taller head tubes usually help in finding a good stem without resorting to a very upright, custom stem. In this case the bike is set up with road components and a traditional road bar that would probably work well for a rider looking to use both the drops and the hoods as riding positions alternately.
Here we see the Singular Gryphon with a bit higher head tube/more sloping top tube which also gets the bar up in the air higher for a more “drop-centric” set up in this single speed off road example. Either way, the stem is a standard reach and rise in both examples shown, with a minimum of spacers due to the frame which was intended to be used with drop bars. This keeps the component choices easy, but you do have to invest in a frame that is specific, (or in the Draakar’s case, nearly so), to drop bar riding. What if you want to convert another bike? One that isn’t necessarily a bike meant for drop bars off road.
Converting a Standard Frame to Drops: Interestingly enough, there are many 29″ers with 100mm forks, like this Lynskey Pro 29, that have inherently high head tubes to allow for suspension travel. In fact, this particular bike has its handle bars higher than the tops on both the Singular Gryphon and Salsa Fargo that I have here! Stick a ten degree rise stem on the Lynskey, a set of drop bars like the Woodchipper, and you’d be well on your way to a perfectly fine off road drop bar set up on a 29″er not necessarily meant to have drop bars on it. Many other 29″ers may have stubby head tubes, or were designed with 80mm travel forks, or both. In these cases, a tall, very upright stem may be the only way to get a drop bar to work, and even then, you may need to resort to a custom stem.
Now I will address those that will say that either way you do this, it looks bad. Well, to these folks I will suggest that (a) you are letting fashion dictate performance, and (b) you probably have never ridden a proper drop bar bike set up off road. Does the drop bar look come off as odd? Of course it does. But that isn’t why folks are riding these set ups. They are riding them first and foremost for the performance and ergonomic benefits. Yes, a few may actually like the look, but that doesn’t trump functionality here. That said, there are a few draw backs that you should be aware of with off road drop bar set ups.
First of all, the obvious is the components that are necessary to set up a mountain bike with off road drop bars. Stem choices may limit you in some cases with some frames. The shifter choices are limited to bar end shifters, or brake/shift lever set ups from road bikes. There are a few that have modified thumb shifters and trigger pods to work, but these are not readily available to most riders. Finally, there are as yet no hydraulic brake compatible drop bar specific brake levers. The rumor is that it is being worked on, but as of now, you are stuck with cantilever brakes or mechanical disc brakes.
Of course, work arounds are out there and examples have been noted by me. The drop bar rider does have to be inventive, or willing to use what is available if they want to set up their 29″er with drop bars for off roading. Perhaps this will change with time, but such is the way of a very small, niche part of the mountain biking community!
















Some fairly pertinent comments…
A common problem for cyclists concerns getting the handlebars at a sufficient height to not only make drop-bars viable but to alleviate neck and shoulder strain. Rather than hunt around for a high rise stem a simpler alternative is to fit a ‘Delta’ steerer tube extender. This component helps you to find the optimum handlebar height without the hassle and expense of experimenting with lots of different stems.
As regards the choice of gear shifters for drop-bars, would gripshift be a sensible proposition?
I don’t know what plans Shimano has for drop-bar compatible hydraulic brake levers but I did spot pictures of a new product called the ‘Pancake Brake’ by a company called ‘Ashima’. These brake levers kind of looked like they could be mounted on ‘drops’.
Maybe GT could shed some light on that, but I’m pretty sure that offroad drops have the same diameter as regular road drops, so gripshifts and other “mountain bike-specific” components won’t fit. At least, not without some sort of wonkie work around. You know, maybe something like Sheldon Brown’s “San Jos8″ shifter. That might work. Paul’s Thumbies should work too. Velo Orange says that the $10 Falcon thumb shifters they sell fit on road bars, so that’s another option. Shimano or Sram really should bring out a hydrolic road lever in both SS (just the lever) and STI form. The first one to do it could corner the market. There’s got to be plenty of non-UCI cyclocrossers running around. And, I think bikes like Fargo, with its “adventure” image and “one bike to do it all” goodness are a growth sector for 29ers. Lots of commuters favor drop bars and disc brakes too and might like the option of hydros. Salsa Vaya, anyone? Trek Portland? I’m sure there are others.
I did a bit of searching around Re: STI shifters with hydraulic brakes. Here’s what I’ve found:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmythefly/4558752559/
Shown are: Hope remote resevoirs, Formula/Santana remote resevoir, Magura hydraulic drop-bal lever and rim caliper, and a home-brew set up. Please add a comment if you know more about what’s available.
Like Turbotwist said, Ashima has a new hydraulic mtn lever/caliper, which is interesting but not too exciting. BUT Ashima also has shown a prototype hydraulic road rim brake. That IS exciting, because perhaps the road parts and mtn parts can be mixed to produce a road-bar hydraulic disc set up. Note that the prototype road parts are a cable-actuated master cylinder that resides inside a custom stem, so you’d still have very short cable runs from the levers to the stem.
Still no totally hydraulic from lever-to-caliper STI shifter, but getting closer.
Dumb question perhaps, but would the change to an off-road drop bar and the required positioning of the brake lever (therefore, the shifter as well) further down the drop cause any shifting issues if you used an STI shifter? I’ve rode many a road bike, but normally stayed on the hoods when doing a lot of shifting. Maybe it was my set-up(s) but shifting in the drops was always harder. Can’t imagine it being easier on bumpy singletrack, but have no real world experience.
On the other hand, most of the mtbs I’ve seen meant be ridden all the time in the drops use other shifting strategies or were SS. Any difference between Shimano, SRAM, Campy, etc.?
Any tips how to convince one’s wife of the need to trade up from a Karate Monkey to a Singular Gryphon? 8^)
@Chuckc1971
Shifting in the drops is f’in awesome. When my hands are in the drops, the positioning of the lever blades for braking and shifting is better than any hand position on any other bike I’ve ridden(caveat: shimano brifters Campy might suck to to the thumb button position?). Because I set it up to be awesome in the drops and to not care about the on-the-hoods position there is no compromise (see gTeds section on “Hand Positioning” that echo’s my experience exactly).
I haven’t tried as many bars a GTed, but I’ve owned all kinds of road bars and combinations of STI and gripshift and indexed mtn and dual-control mountain and downtube and bar-end and cAmpy and SRAM road. WTB dirt drops, Nitto dirt drops, Mungo, Mary, Space bar, Nitto Randonneurs, Ergo road bars, traditional road bars, riser bars, flat bars, brahma bullhorns, etc.
I may not be a great rider, but I do like to tinker!
Wow. I made a lot of typos in that last post, try not to let them get on your nerves too much.
Chuck, I would think that when you set up the bars to have the primary position in the hooks, the levers are going to be further down and easier to reach. So, your shifting should be fine. As to your next question…. Well, the Gryphon frames are only running $590 (last time I checked), so if you’re swapping over the parts from the Monkey than that’s not a huge cash outlay. What does your wife spend on her hobbies in a given year? More than $590? Maybe you’ve got some leverage there. BTW, if you don’t mind me asking, what makes the Gryphon a “trade up” for you? I’m just thinking they are both chromo frames, both made in Taiwan, both on the heavish side of steel frames. Is it the horizontal dropouts vs. EBB? Cool head badge? Better dropbar setup?
Here are some observations/comments on what is being discussed here.
The shifter conundrum is definitely a thing that can be overcome. I am pretty sure IRD sells a bar end shifter mount, similar to the Paul Thumbie mounts, that does fit road bar diameter handle bars like the drops we are talking about here. That may be workable for some. I also have seen XTR Rapid Fire mounts modified, or machined from scratch to mount the Rapid Fire pods on the inside of the drop portion. SRAM pods like X-0 and X-9 could be mounted in this manner as well since they are MatchMaker compatible. An ingenious machinist could whip something up fairly easy for this application, and again, I have heard of this being done.
Moving on to hydraulic levers: I have met the man behind Ashima and he has pledged to me that he will come out with a road aero type lever which will house a hydraulic master cylinder and be workable with hydraulic brakes. I have also heard rumors that this very same man was contracted by SRAM to prototype a hydraulic road lever for them. Kepp in mind that the need for such a lever is incredibly small in comparison to standard road or mountain components, so the fruits of these rumors may be a long time in coming- if they come at all.
Shifting from the drops with STI levers is actually pretty easy. SRAM is a more difficult lever since they are so short. Campy might be even more difficult due to the thumb lever, but Camp doesn’t make a hub/cogset that is all that attractive to mountain bikers anyway.
I used to think that an offroad dropbar could be better than the typical inverted trekking bar I like so much. Midge, I couldn’t find one comfortable hand position on. This one looks better, but still…
I see more and more logic to Shendon Brown’s test bike approach. 2 stems, 2 bars. It won’t win beauty contests, but might well work best for usable hand positions.
Thanks for the info everyone!
@JohnB: Perhaps trade-up wasn’t the best term. How about: I have this first year Karate Monkey that I regularly rotate from fendered 35c wet road use to fixed MTB. I like it for both, but Mrs. c1971 would never let another bike in the home and I couldn’t part with the other bikes.
Seeing how money is lately, I don’t know if I can swing for a Gryphon, but I want one! I think the bike looks neat, but having the best drop-bar set-up would be what I am after.
I tried the Midge and agree with Cloxxki, but that may have been just my set-up. I could try to find a stem and woodchipper bar for the monkey. That would be cheaper, but I figure I might end up with the same issues as when I tried the Midge. What stems (length and rise) have you guys used to go from say a conventional riser bar, alt-bar, etc. to a true mtb drop bar? Please give pre- and post- if you can remember. Thanks!
@chuck1971: That’s my Karate Monkey at the top of this post. I started out with a 100mm stem and a Salsa 11 degree bar. When I went to drops I put on a 40 degree ride 90mm reach stem on it.
You’re nuts Cloxxki.
You’re nuts for investing your time to keep posting negatively at my address.
Dropbars seem like something that should work. One piece of tubing, bend to offer oh so many handpositions. But for how many people do they actually work? As in : being truly comfortable.
But, they are “traditional value” in cycling, and need to be respected. Just like the straight MTB bar. Don’t say it’s no good, look at what it brought to use!
I really like my Salsa Woodchipper. I’ve got 105 shifters mounted on it. Ben at Mill Town Cycles set it up for me. I made one small adjustment, otherwise I just ride with it. kicking around the idea of a Drakkar myself. I’ve seen Sean’s(Rawland owner). he has it outfitted with Force shifters and a traditional road drop bar. looks like a nice ride. I’m looking forward to see how Ben sets up his Drakkar.
Kind folks – can a drop bar setup recommendation be made for a 2009 Haro Mary SS, 20″ frame . The current bar is a stock On-One Mary with Avid BB5 w/160mm rotor brakes, Avid FR-5 levers. No shifting concerns. If this is the wrong forum for this question, please advise. Thx.
What bars are on the Singular Gryphon above?
Thanks
@Jeremy: Those are Salsa Woodchippers. Same as the Karate Monkey has in the topmost image.
Thanks for the guide, I am itching to give drop bars another chance after 2 years of separation and spine issues (cockpit too long). Currently my stable of roughneck, internally geared franken-bikes seems a tough crowd of short range battle axes. The drop bar appeal for me is motivated in a versatile bike for longer road tours/camping/canyon rides, some light trails, fair weather alley cat races…I tend towards tall saddle, short reach, twitchy handling, upright positions-which makes drops seem sorta silly. Prior to finding out the hard way that I don’t like MTN drops, I will be low budget until it sticks.
I am designing my cockpit for the hooded position, because I like solid access to brakes in technical terrain. I wasn’t aware that MTN drops are oft designed around riding in the drops-I suppose that here your hands are poised between the levered end of the brakes and bar end shifters. Also the bar may absorb a little more shock down there?
DETAILS:
Aqua blue 80′s Schwinn MTB-paint scratched off where model name was. (not ready to screw with my-36 pounds of hard-tail love-29er just yet)
original 3×7 gears (rear wheel definitely weaker than my internal gears, but slightly stronger than 10spd dishing)
TALL & SHORT-reach quill stem (http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=431052) – hoping the narrow clamp doesn’t snap the bars.
Tektro linear pull hood levers w/ v-brakes (upgradable to discs),
narrow woodchipper bars
fric&index thumb shifters-probably mounted inboard near bar ends.
With the tall quill stem, I’ll have some room to adjust height on the fly and try hoods vs drops. I’m looking forward to recovering from ankle tendonitis and to this experiment-I too like to tinker.
I’ve been using my old mountain bike as a commuter bike (with a rigid fork, and cx tires)…and i’m toying with the idea of racing in the local cyclocross races on it this fall. As a result, i keep looking at it and thinking “drop bars?”. I really don’t want to invest in new brakes and shifters though. I guess i’m wondering if i could put something like the Woodchipper on it – position the stem high for a higher hand position on the drop bar…but keep the mtn bike brakes/shifters on it. Thoughts? No hood…dangerous or unworkable?
@DB13: Unfortunately the bar clamp size for mtb controls is 25.4mm and the road bar control clamp diameter is slightly larger than that. Enough so that your mtb controls will not slide onto, or clamp over a standard diameter road bar, and all drops for off road are made like this.
You would necessarily have to swap out controls to make it work, which is do-able.