Editor’s Note: Recently we were contacted by Mark Ferry, who is a coach for Trojan High School Mountain Bike Team in NorCal. Mark told us his team is almost entirely made up of riders on 29″ers and thought we’d be interested in that. (Look for our story on this in a post coming soon) In the meantime, Mark noticed the Santa Cruz Tall boy post where Grannygear got the impressions of three other riders on his Tall Boy tester rig. Well, Mark has been putting time in on his own Tall Boy with a 120mm Fox Fork on the front of it. Here’s his take:
Rider: Mark Ferry, Mountain Bike Coach for the Trojans High School Mountain Bike Team in El Dorado Hills, CA. He started down the VPP journey a while ago with one of the first aluminum 26″ Blur’s, then the Blur LT and most recently just parting with his favorite so far the Intense 29er 1×9 in the photo. He’s an XC guy but also enjoys the All Mountain thing. Rides at least 4 times a week with his 14 rider team (13 of them rolling 29′s).
Rider Info: 6’2″, 170lbs, racer turned coach, 3-4 hour rides all the time, last bike was 1st 29″, can’t ever see going back to a 26″
A couple things to note. The first is that I am not riding the bike reviewed. And the second is I really like the VPP suspension design on both Santa Cruz and Intense bikes. Riding the Spyder 29er (with a 120 mm FOX Fork, to tame the steep head tube) built up as a 1×9 with a Mavic CrossMax wheel set. The bike was my favorite to date. There was only three things I thought could make it better. In order of importance they were, make it stiffer/less flexy, a squeak free bearing/linkage design and as always making it lighter never hurts. I remember listening to Mike Ferrentino a year ago tell me about the new Blur LT Carbon and how the frame was a pound lighter than the Aluminum Blur LT. The part that shocked me was when he said the frame went up 80% in stiffness. Think about it. That’s the kind of increase that makes a small bike manufacturer be able to give their bikes no rider weight limit and any fork option they want.
The day I heard they were going to make the Tallboy I placed my order. I knew this frame would have all the changes that I was looking for including the new bearing design that is smooth, silent and easy to fill with grease. Since this bike is not the same as the 27.5 lb one that is tested in this write up I thought it would be helpful if I gave you the lowdown on the bike build. I run Easton Carbon Downhill bars for the longer width 28″ and 180mm crankset for a little more leverage since I don’t have a granny ring and only run a single ring in the front. The Tallboy you see in the photo is 24.21 lbs on the scale at Bicycles Plus in Folsom. Quite a bit lighter than my Spyder 29er and sooo much stiffer, it has become my dream bike for all day rides. The fork is a custom tapered FOX FIT w/ 120mm, handlebar lockout and the 15QR axle for even more rigidity. It’s amazing how much more I use the lockout now that it is mounted next to my shifter. The brakes are Hope M4′s with a 200mm floating rotor on the front and a 160mm on the rear. They don’t even blink at Downieville. I love extra powerful brakes. The drive train in the front is XTR 180mm crankset w/ MRP guide and single ring, the rear is XX shifters, derailleur, cassette and chain. It’s currently running a Stans ZTR Race wheel set. Not what I planned but, they are really amazing for how light they are. My planned wheel set is the stiffest one I could dream up, a pair of EDGE Carbons that I have been waiting forever due to a pair of back ordered Chris King hubs (hopefully one day soon). I rode a pair of these on a Tallboy at Demo Day and knew that was the stiff I was looking for (amazing but, uber expensive). I have run a lot of tires on this bike and so far my two favorites have been 2.4 Racing Ralphs and 2.2 Geax Saguaros.
Currently my front fork is the 120mm Fox and at first I was worried that it was going to steer too slow compared to my Intense 29er that has a steeper head angle. Well it steers just fine and is not the least bit twitchy. I run my rear shock on Pro Pedal in the #2 position 90% of the time on my rides. Only if I am doing a long downhill will I switch it to what I call “Juicy Mode”.
Regarding frame size: I am 6’2″ and test rode both the XL and the L. After multiple back to back tests I found that I without a doubt I preferred the Large. It just steered better where the XL felt like it did not want to. On high speed fire road downhills I thought I would like the XL better and I felt equally as comfortable on the Large.
I’ve been only riding this bike for a short time but so far this one is incredible. Every time I throw a leg over it I smile and feel like I’m cheating.
Coach Mark
www.trojanmtbracing.com
Editor’s Note: Thanks to Mark and be sure to stay tuned on our upcoming story about the Trojan High School Mountain Bike Team.
sick build! are you getting the am edges or the xc?
Great job ! keep up the good work.
Dream bike indeed! Other than the lack of choices for chainring options ;~), I really like your parts pick, but that’s because I’m well into the clydesdale range. I would prefer to wear out small chainrings rather than the soles of my riding shoes, but that’s my issue, not yours. If you tell me the front end isn’t too light on steep climbs with the extra fork length (I don’t think it is, but would like to know for certain), I’ll have unsavory dreams about this bike TONIGHT! Thanks for the write up.
Don’t reviews generally have a REVIEW of the product. This is some dude bragging about his dream bike. It starts off “The first is that I am not riding the bike reviewed.” Is there a follow up with an actual review coming?
“The first is that I am not riding the bike reviewed.” – he’s refering to the bike reviewed on this site earlier.
But I do agree that this is more of description of someone’s bike than a review. More info comparing the Intense and Tall Boy would have been good.
How about another credible riders perspective on the bike – personally i think its a great idea and approach. Tired of reading the same old boring reviews. This review (perspective) has a guy that is riding a different size bike, fork option from the original review and obviously part spec. Look forward to the read
That was it – that was the review. And it was just a description of his build. No comparison to his older bike (the Intense) other than it was stiffer and the bearings don’t squeak. How’s the handling compare? Which one climbs/descends better? What about the rear suspension feel? That’s pretty important on a full suspension bike.
@dman, et al: Well, I’m sorry if this seems confusing. It is “Another Rider’s View” not “Another Rider’s Review”.
Take it with that grain of salt. It’s just another added bit on top of all of our other SC Tall Boy information.
I’m not trying to be a jerk (kinda looks that way…) I just think he could have added more good info is all.
I still like the site!
@dman: No worries. I just thought I’d step in to clear that up. Thanks for your comments, as always!
@ dman – think the author might have meant his bike was not the same bike Grannygear tested and gave to friends to ride – it was his own, with a different set up.
I appreciate this extra input. The reviewer is close to me in overall size, so his preference of a Large frame is really informative – as mostly a Fisher rider to date I have had better luck with Large as well, even though XL is the usual first recommendation I get. Good to know where to start with a Tallboy, when the time is right.
Also appreciate the input on the 120 mm Fox on this frame.Some bikes well-suited to XC at 4 inches act up at five on the front. My goal is a light , stiff, trail/light AM bike – my SF100 has the rest of the FS bases covered for me. I think SC has a winner.
I think TNI has another top asset in GG – he really pokes and prods on these test rigs, and I truly like the other opinions he solicits from riders of varied experience. This Tallboy review has rocked.
Now I think he should return to his HT roots and compare the carbon offerings from Spec, Fisher, Felt, Jamis – in geared and SS!
@Lee T
Why thank you, kind sir. I would be quite happy to ride any single speed any time it is offered. Seems that lately it has been FS stuff popping up to test.
I think you will see GT getting more time on the carbon hardtail Stumpy as soon as he has clear trails. All serious testing on his end goes into hibernation when the snow flies. Iowa, ya know.
As far as the content of this article, it does read more like someone’s feelings about his bike rather than a ‘test ride/comparison’ and that is OK. I think we have tested the Tall Boy pretty thoroughly on our own, but this writers findings can be of help to some folks who relate.
grannygear
Hello Everyone. The wheels I am waiting for are the Edge XC’s. Sorry about not taking more time to compare the Intense vs. the Tallboy. The biggest thing that I notice is no flex on really steep climbs where you mash the pedals and torque the bars. The Intense you can flex. I can’t seem to flex the Tallboy. It is also noticeably lighter on the climbs and so far to date feels like it has traction control. I have not spun the rear tire yet. Handling compared to the Intense I feel the Tallboy tracks like it’s on rails. I ride Salmon Falls (a local single track with a ton of small rocks that you can seem to miss) on this trail I just point it straight and pedal. I really liked the 2.4 Racing Ralphs on this trail, although I kinda feel like I might be able to tear them (I have not yet). I really like the VPP rear suspension because it is so active, and when I stand and hammer it climbs so well. I am trying to think about the negatives on this bike and so far I have not really found one. If any of you have any questions just ask.
@Coach Mark it really sounds good that you use a 120mm fork up front. I presume that you’d be a perfect customer for a 120mm frame as well. What do you think about a Tallboy LT i 120mm and 140mm icarnations as an addition to the current 100mm? If you like such idea will you inform the SC about such an intransigent desire?
Copperfield returns!
Coach Mark,
I am 6’2, 195, 52yrs. old. I don’t have luxury to try a large versus XL Tallboy but the shop I deal with says XL… I am not a pro… by far but need to keep up with my 29er buddies 10+ yrs. my junior.
Also the shop wants to spec a more expensive… stronger fork than the stock one… don’t remember name…. your thoughts
Leo Lip,
I’ve recently bought a XL tallboy. I’m about inch taller than you and at the age of your riding buddes. Of course it will depend on your leg length more than anything but I find the XL great sizing, if anything I wondered about the XXL, so as you are slightly shorter I’d say the XL should be spot on.
Not sure about the fork. I’ve stuck with the standard 100mm Fox on the front and have no complaints, I’m using it for big rides 50+ miles or 3+ hours and I’m not sure a heavier fork would be good for that. Guess it will depend on the kind of riding you do.
Andy.
I have ridden a Talboy now several times as a demo and I can compare it to one of my bikes…a Mach 429. I have owned all the good 29ers except Intense.
The Tallboy is lighter and that makes it an easier seated climber though the 429 pedals better, on or out of the saddle. The front of both bikes lofts easily. Donl;t be fooled into thinking that the Tallboy is “active” if you have 5″-6″ bikes in mind or even 29ers like the RIP9 or Sultan. It is not. It is really firm and while that makes it climb well, it also slows it down and hangs it up in techincal sections…slow or fast.
In slow sections, it helps if you stay light on the seat. otherwise, the compresion forces compresses the shock too much and there is not much travel left to help track over the rcok. Here, bikes like the Sultan and Rip simply leave it in the dust. Same with fast and rough downhills.
The Tallboy is fantastic on smother trails and still very good on rough trails as long as you are not coming off a longer-travel bike. It is quite similar in feel to the Mach 429, another racier 29er. The mach 429 is extremely laterally stiff. The Tallboy is stiff enough but not as stiff. Somewhere in the linkage area, there is some flex. It isn’t as bad as people may imagine but compared to the 429, it is flexier. It is nowhere near as flexy as the old Intense 29er so reast easy. It corners very well sine it is balanced so well. I do not like bikes with heavy rearward weigh biases and the Tallboy does not dissapiint. Just lean in and guide it through the fastest turns and it will bring you through…unless you just suck at fast turns.
Overall, it is a fantastic short-travel bike that can really fly when pushed. On trails where you can really pedal, it will leave most behind with equal riders on board. It’s a fun bike that I consider in the top 3-4, unless you are looking for a plush and active ride, in which case, the 429 and Tallboy are outgunned. Stick with the Behemoth, RIP9, Sultan, Intense Tracer, etc. It is also one heck of a light platform to build a light trailbike or racer. At a frame weight of 5.25 lbs to 5.5 lbs, it is hard to neat the weight advantage of carbon. Just toss on some helicopter tape and a BB protector if you ride really rocky terrain.