Editor’s Note: Grannygear is finished with his time on the Santa Cruz Tall Boy full suspension 29″er. He files this final missive and in a two-fer-one, you also get some other rider’s take on this carbon fiber wonder bike.

By Grannygear:

“All good things come to an end“, they say, and the Tall Boy is headed back to Santa Cruz. I have a few final thoughts, some set-up updates, and then we will hear some words from other riders that sampled the Tall Boy. Finally, in another article, I will take a look at how I think it compares with the Specialized Epic Marathon I have been riding lately.

I had some difficulty getting the Tall Boy to feel the way I wanted it to feel. For some reason, right or wrong, it is expected that short link bikes do not require a platform shock to pedal well. That may or may not be true as each short link bike from different makers has a unique slant to it. The VPP2 is intended to be a very active suspension and the Fox RP23 shock for 2010 is a very open shock with pretty much no platform if Pro Pedal is off. So, I found I needed to run the Tall Boy with the RP23 in Pro Pedal #2 pretty much all the time to keep it settled down. The good news was that I did not feel that it took much away from the overall performance of the Tall Boy. Now, some folks like a very active bike and if that is the case, you got that here. As well, the Tall Boy seems to have a fair amount of anti-squat designed into it and this is more apparent in the small chain ring, especially when standing and climbing. I can sense it in the middle ring as well. If a full suspension bike is going to react when you pedal it, I would prefer that the shock tries to extend rather than compress. I had an old Intense Tracer that used to squat on its hindquarters on every steep hill. I hated that feeling. So the anti-squat in the Tall Boy feels odd, but never affected my forward progress or ability to keep the rear wheel ‘hooked up’.

P1240127

I also found it to be a pretty quick handling bike, not scary or nervous, but very accurate, so you needed to be precise with where you pointed the bars. The reward was a sports car response that would slice and dice like crazy. I wondered aloud if the Tall Boy would not be a better bike for me with a 120mm Fox fork on it. I felt that it would compliment the active rear end and tame the steering just a bit.

There was some flex going on in the back end of the bike and most of that was from a less than stout wheel build. It was felt by the other heavier test riders on off-camber hills and I noticed it in parallel ruts. I think that if you are at the 200lb mark, perhaps a stiffer wheel would be a good idea. The rest of the chassis of the Tall Boy seems to be absolutely solid, as under mashing/pedaling and turning, etc, it is excellent.

About mid way through the testing time, Santa Cruz sent out a Monarch 3.3 rear shock. It is designed to have more built in platform so it would be an interesting comparison. I set it at the 20% sag mark with 190psi, very comparable to settings that the RP23 was running. According to Santa Cruz, this was on the firm end of things and 25% to 30% might be more normal. I left it at 20% sag, set the rebound to the faster side of the middle ground, and went out for a pedal. The end result was transformative in my opinion. With the 3.3 in place, I was able to run the bike with no platform, (or in the case of the 3.3, ‘gate’), and ride pretty much anything with the shock open. With ‘mid-gate’ on it was firm enough to ride paved climbs or smooth trails. I never needed the ‘full gate’ setting. I was getting 80% travel on the shock as well, just on normal trails. Better than that, it balanced really well to the Fox 100mm fork which I liked to run in 75% to 50% closed (compression damping) with the rebound pretty fast.

The swap to the 3.3 made it into a bike I would love to own, even with the 100mm fork on it. The 120mm fork option, in my opinion, would be better served with the Fox RP23. How you want the bike to be is up to you, but it does point out that the Tall Boy is a very adaptable and versatile platform. This has got to be on anyone’s list of endurance racers, light-to mid weight trail bikes, or all rounders. It is expensive and sexy. It is light and stiff. It is a bike that works very well and is gonna make a lot of owners happy.

The Tall Boy is a bold move and I would wager a costly gamble from a company that is new to big wheels. I think it will pay off.

I took the opportunity to have three riders throw a leg over the Tall Boy. All are 29er riders, all are big guys, either tall or heavy or both, and all of them were pretty stoked to give the big orange composite frame a try. The goal is to get more than my perspective, hoping that you may see yourself, dear reader, in one of these guys.

Tall Boy: What Others Have To Say:

After all the words I had to say were spent, I wanted to get a few other viewpoints on the Tall Boy from some other riders. I let each of them take it for a ride or two and each of them adjusted the set-up as seemed appropriate. In each case, the Fox RP23 was in place.

First up to bat was Ed the Tall. Ed and I ride singlespeeds a lot together and his main ride is a Salsa Dos Niner. He also rides a Selma SS, so no real FS going on for Ed. He is definitely a XC guy; Ed does silly stuff like solo 12 hour races, etc.

Rider Info: 6’3”, 175lbs, endurance racer wannabe, epic ride aficionado, 29” convert from “way” back (5 years), never owned a 29er full squish (unless a soft tail counts!)

P2110143

Ed The Tall’s Take:

First, I’m a big fan of Santa Cruz bikes. Maybe my man crush started back in my youth, when Santa Cruz dominated the skate scene for a while. The last 26” bike I owned was the Santa Cruz Superlight, and I had a hard time parting with it. I was really looking forward to throwing a leg over the Tallboy. Fortunately, the demo bike even came in XL! Other than bringing the seat post up a bit, I didn’t change Granny’s set up at all. Fit felt pretty good, so I was off to test the bike on the local circuit; a nice mix of pavement to start, some fire road and fast, flowy single track on the way back down.

I’m not the type to agonize over BB heights, HTA, or the suspension platform, particularly if I don’t own or am not in the process of purchasing a bike. For a full suspension bike, I thought the Tallboy pedaled just fine on the flats and uphill. A little bit of bob was noted, even with the ProPedal engaged, but I don’t know what the air pressures or sag was set at. It’s not the bike I would choose for my next 12hr solo race, but I wouldn’t choose any full suspension 29er at this point (still relatively young, and dumb). Downhill, this bike is a blast! The quick steering was appreciated, particularly when we entered the tight and twisty creek bed single track. There was plenty of plush travel that I never felt I used, as the local riding is relatively smooth with little, if any, real nasty trail obstacles. I’ve told myself (and Granny) a time or two that I would like to get a 29er FS for forays into the San Gabriel Mountains and the yearly trip up to Lake Tahoe. With that type of terrain (fast, rocky descents with some technical climbing) in mind, the Santa Cruz Tallboy is at or near the top of my wish list.

Next was RandyBoy. In his words: “I’m 6’5″, 225 #’s, about 240 pounds ready to ride, very much in the XC category, I ride with another fellow, usually training rides 3 times a week for his next race, be it Vision Quest, the Traverse, road racing Death Valley 515″.

P2110139

RandyBoy’s Take:

Just got back from doing a big demo on all of my local single track, both up and down, on a XL Santa Cruz TallBoy.

I believe Grannygear said the bike I rode was 26.5 or 27.5 pounds? XT build, Chub hub up front, DT Swiss 340 with RWS in the rear, Mountain King 2.4 up front, Maxis Ignitor on back, SPD pedals, Thomson seat post, XC Monkeylite flat bars, Fox 100 up front.

Quick heads up, riding conditions were peeeeeerfect today, rained 2 days ago, decomposed granite, 90% tacky, tacky, tacky hero dirt, with some 5% silty mud beds still filled with “slick as snot” goopy soup, “yer gonna skate, try to keep it straight” mud. All single track.

It’s fast on climbs, locked down with ProPedal on, but it’s a different kind of fast. It needs ProPedal. I ran 220 psi in the rear shock, without ProPedal, if on steep climbs, I blow through a good portion on the RP23. No problems with the front end coming up on steep climbs. SC has a very comfortable seat/handlebar/cockpit position on this bike, I absolutely love it as configured.

If I could use one word, to compare it to my XL 2010 RIP and my Large Atomic Blue V1 RIP, I would have to say the Tall Boy Graphite is flickable. Flickable, like your favorite micro brewed beer bottle top, snapped point and shoot style, by your thumb out of your hand around the campfire at your buddies, right where you aim it. There is stiffness in the front triangle that easily matches and exceeds what I feel in my Niner hydroformed RIP frame

Santa Cruz has built in chain suck guard on the bottom of the right chain stay, and a carbon weave/graphite gizmo on the top of the chain stay. This bike is absolutely silent, with zero perceptible chain slap, compared to either of my inner tubed up chain stays on my RIP’s We are talking almost Single Speed quiet uber minor chain slap. The linkage just never gets in the way of the chain, near as I could tell or hear. Maybe carbon is just quieter, with less resonance through the frame from chain slap, compared to aluminum, or maybe it just doesn’t make contact, due to design?

I think the RIP has been built more burly, all mountain for 2009/2010. The Tall Boy is a different market segment in my eyes, more after the Jet racer type crowd, or a very light all mountain type of bike. For my needs, I’d want less pedal strike, even though I would give up a little the way this bike carves going from a 100mm to a 120mm fork. That’s just the way it is with the trails I ride around here in So Cal. YMMV, some folks may love the low CG and scalpel like handling the 100mm fork provides, especially if the single track they ride is perhaps covered with smaller diameter rocks than we have locally. I find pedal strikes to be a major turnoff, ever since one of them near The Waterfall up at Downieville almost offed me and raised my voice 3 octaves.

Rear suspension… they are different, I’m not sure if it’s just in my head, or from my old Bionicon days, but to me, the rocker arm style of the Niner RIP, with the longer lower swing arm pivots, just seems a bit more compliant, less kick back, going up over rocks and roots. Then again, it could be the way the dampening is, or that I run my RIP without ProPedal over almost everything. The RIP feels more efficient, but you feel the weight penalty. The Tall Boy, without ProPedal, does the “Unskinny Bop” when this Clyde is standing and mashing.

Only drawback I could come across was that I can’t quite figure out why I had some tracking issues on off cambered, rutted single track. There was something back there that was not digging at all how much I weighed. I checked wheel spoke tension, checked tire pressure, checked the ground I was rolling over, checked tire tracks, checked the rear 10mm RWS axle for looseness. What I was feeling was a rear end that on off camber rutted single track, did not want to track straight under my 240 pounds. I’m not sure if it was the lightness of the Mavic TN719 rims, or rear bushings, or flex in the rear triangle, but the back end wanted to wallow in the ruts, drifting down the off camber, despite the input from me to correct at the handle bars. Maybe the Tall Boy is for Tall Skinny XC type boys that don’t go over 160 pounds?

I would not sell my RIP for a Tallboy, not at least yet, but if I was coming from a hard tail to getting a FS 29′er, and I had the moolah, I would look long and hard at Santa Cruz’s efforts in the Tall Boy. I can see if Carbon doesn’t break like Aluminum Jets, and never has welding or heat treating QC issues, it may very well make 6000 and 7000 series aluminum frames fossil relics.

One last word,This bike is FUN!!!

Next up was JeffJ, a self admitted Clydesdale. Jeff is not that fast or daring, but he represents the proto-typical weekend warrior big-guy rider to me and he has a lot of bike experience. Jeff is 6’5″ and 270 lbs.

IMG_0218gg

Big Boy on a Tallboy Jeff’s take:

When I got the opportunity to get a ride in on an XL Tallboy (rather than the XXL I rode at I-Bike), I was happy to do so as my Tallboy ride at I-Bike was the first ever on a bike that actually felt too big for me. The XXL also had a long stem and the saddle was far back in the seatpost clamp making for a stretched out position that is not my cup of tea.

The XL Tallboy I rode a couple days ago fit much better (I am 6’5) as it had a shorter stem (100 mm) and I was able to move the saddle to a position that was more to my liking. This bike was set up with a 100mm travel fork (Fox) and had three 5mm spacers perched beneath the 0* stem. When I had the seatpost extended to a proper climbing position, this put the nearly flat MonkeyLite XC riser bar about 4 inches lower than the top of the saddle which is admittedly quite a bit lower than I prefer (my preference is more like 0” to 2” max). The relatively short head tube length gives options to get the cockpit controls as low or as high as one wishes. My weight is 270lbs and I filled the Fox RP23 to 280psi and the Fox fork to just a tad below 140psi. Sag was in the 20% range on the fork and the 25% range for the rear shock and ProPedal in the #2 position.

It was nice to get to ride the bike on trails I have ridden over 100 times so I have a pretty good baseline with which to compare. The Tallboy is a pretty efficient climber. Not quite ‘hardtail efficient’ on fire roads and relatively non-technical climbs, but not far off. When things got a little lumpier, I was glad to be aboard the Tallboy. I will say that I didn’t do too much technical climbing, so I’m not going to make any statements about how it handles that. I put in a few ‘out of the saddle’ efforts with the fork locked out and was rewarded with minimal bobbing. I even tried the same hills a second time with ProPedal switched off and was not disappointed. With PP off, it did take a little longer for the suspension to settle (when seated or standing), but it was not significant, pronounced or particularly annoying. I would give it high marks for out of the saddle climbing manners.

When it came time to point the Tallboy downhill, I lowered the saddle (because that’s what I normally do) and headed into the local fun zone. I was expecting the steering to be a little nervous and was on alert for possible pedal strikes as the Tallboy does have a BB height that’s toward the lower end of the spectrum. I didn’t so much find the steering to be nervous or twitchy (which imply a negative trait). Instead I found it to be . . . . . precise, in a good way. I wouldn’t characterize the suspension to be either harsh or plush, more like comfortable and efficient. I also found the front end to be fairly stiff and I have to imagine the tapered head tube and steer tube have something to do with this. I did find some flex in the wheels that came on this bike compared to my personal bike, but I built those up a little burlier than a typical XC wheel set. And did I mention quiet? That’s another mark in the plus column for this bike.

My own personal preference would be to try this bike with a 120mm travel fork and have the controls mounted higher via some combination of taller steer tube/stem/bars. I feel like the BB height would still be low enough to handle well and this would help to raise the front end. I could also deal with slightly less precise handling in order to make this lean toward being more of a trail bike than toward the XC side of things as it’s presently configured.
I wouldn’t say the frame is stiff as it does have a little flex in the rear end, but it wasn’t overly so and my size will bring that out in most frames, especially those that can be built up in the 25-29lb range with common build kits.

The Bottom Line: All in all, I liked this bike more than I expected after my I-Bike experience. It did everything I asked, rides great and looks dead sexy to boot. I didn’t get the impression that I was too heavy for the carbon frame and I felt like this frame could be built up a couple different ways (full suspension XC weapon or all-day epic trail bike) and still excel either way depending on what a rider prefers. I was glad to have a second chance to get a proper first impression.

Okay, that’s a wrap on our review of Santa Cruz’s new and first 29″er effort. Twenty Nine Inches would like to thank Santa Cruz and Mike Ferrentino for this opportunity to ride this bike and write about it. The Tall Boy was provided by Santa Cruz at no charge to us for these reviews and we gave our honest opinions throughout.