Editor’s Note: Grannygear has a mid term report for us on the Tall Boy, one of 2010′s most talked about 29 inch wheeled bikes. From one of the few places in the U.S. that has primo riding conditions, here is his report:
Santa Cruz Tall Boy Ride Update by Grannygear..
I have around 10 hours of riding on the Tall Boy now over a pretty varied range of trails and roads and I have been left with some strong impressions. I ran the bike the way I received it as far as parts selection but I did swap the Small Block 8 tires for something better suited to the wet weather we have been having in So Cal. I mounted up a Continental 2.4 Mountain King on the front and a Maxxis Ignitor 2.1 on the rear with tubes in place.
I played a bit with the rear shock pressures to see what I would get from it. VPP, as I understand it, likes to have you riding in a ‘sweet spot’ or ‘sag pocket’ so that there is negative and positive travel at the ready. I weigh around 190 dressed to ride so I ran between 170psi and 190psi to see how it felt. That put me at either end of the recommended sag settings. The lower pressure felt plusher…no surprise…but the higher setting was closer to what I would ride in my fairly smooth neck of the woods. In any case I had to run ProPedal on the number 2 setting or I was getting too much pedal induced movement in the suspension. However, it still was very comfy when seated pedaling over rough ground even with ProPedal on so I don’t think I was giving up very much. In fact, for most fireroad and moderate trails, I kept ProPedal on and the Fox fork closed up about 50% on the compression lever. That was a nice balance, but not really plush and that was what I wanted.
The bike came with very wide handlebars so there was a ton of leverage there for standing climbing. The first ride began with 8 miles of pavement riding, mostly uphill, to get to the dirt. The Tall Boy pedals pretty well and with the 100mm fork it had a nice and low feeling to the handlebars. With ProPedal on, on the paved climbs it felt like a pretty stout bottom bracket and the overall feeling was quite good. The first few miles of dirt are a series of steep climbs and short descents like a big interval session. The wide firewood corners are pretty tight and tend to be a bit rutted and rocky. Here the Tall Boy really began to reward with accurate and confident feelings in the turns. The steeper HT angle makes for a quick turn-in to corners and the bike tracks very, very well. Ferrari came to mind here as the moist soil and the aggressive front tire allowed the Tall Boy to bite in and hold any line I chose.
The VPP rear suspension seems to follow trail surfaces with grace and balance and stays hooked up when out of the saddle on rough, loose climbs. All was good and neutral till I stood on one hill about halfway up when I was climbing in the small chainring. Standing and pedaling in the little ring was a very odd feeling as something was going on with the linkage and the shock…monkey motion comes to mind…I could not really see what it was doing and I never lost any feeling of forward progress or anything, but it felt comical. Do I stand a lot and climb in the small ring? Nah, but if I did, I would have to come to terms with that. Other than that, the bike accelerates like crazy and feels pretty snappy for a short link bike. I say that because many I have ridden (the Jet-9 was an exception) have felt like I was dragging something behind me when I pedaled out of the saddle. The Tall Boy feels fine in the bigger two chainrings at least.
The final section of the ride was a tight and rocky singletrack through a canyon, into a creek bed, and out again to the fireroad. I opened up the ProPedal and the Fox fork and dropped in. Wow. You can go really fast on this bike but with the 100mm fork, you need to pay attention. It is not scary or anything, but it will go where you look so look where you want to go! Stay on top of things and ride aggressively and it just flies. Curious, I switched ProPedal back on and closed up the fork a bit and I actually found I liked it better that way as it was a bit ‘tighter’ feeling overall. I have come to like a bit slacker head tube angle for where I ride and what I like the bike to be. Twice I ran completely off the trail on the Tall Boy. That never happens on any of the three other bikes I ride here and I was not pushing it that hard. Whatizzup wit dat? Well, I probably need to grow some skills…granted…so there is that, but the rest is a faster turning bike then I am used to.
The second ride was a singletrack climb that is rough and bouldery and then a return down that same creek bed trail that I was missing my lines on. The Tall Boy really does a great job when sitting and pedaling over broken and bumpy trails. Very nice. Back down the trail, this time at night and with a buddy breathing down my neck, I was pushing it a bit and the Tall Boy was not even breathing hard. I was able to wait till the last minute and then just pitch the bike over and cut through the turn. That is not my typical style but it felt really good doing that. I bet the Tall Boy set up with the 100mm fork would be a smart choice for woodsy, tight, rooty riding. The rear tire clearance, the supple rear suspension and the stiff front chassis would be a good combo there.
Next on tap was a 3 hour ride in much more techy conditions. I had just done this ride on the Specialized Epic Marathon so I was very interested to compare. Very Moab-ish, the sandstone in the area tosses all kinds of trail obstacles in the way and this is the domain of all-mountain bikes. The approach to the trail was a steep (17 degrees in some places) grade up a couple of miles of rough fireroad. The 22/34 combo felt great and the bike exhibited no odd traits while grinding along in the saddle. Sitting at the summit and ready to dive into the trail, I was thinking about my plan as I dropped the seat height. This singletrack is best enjoyed on an all mountain type of bike so I was a bit nervous after the pin-ball trail experience back home, but I opened up the rear shock and the fork and dropped in. Huh. No worries. Over rock domes, around switchbacks with ledge drops…nothing but solid performance. Would I have liked a 120mm fork? Sure, but this was not bad at all in fact it was nearly easy. Sweet! One thing I felt was some flex in the back end somewhere, noticed when I would get the bike in two different parallel ruts or between two rocks. Not sure if it was the wheel or the frame or some combo of both.
NOTE: Later at home I performed the old ‘grab the rear wheel with one hand and the saddle with the other and pull them apart’ test to see where that rear wiggle was coming from. The rear wheel is not all that stiff actually, but I could see the rear triangle slightly twisting all the way to the seat tube/bb area near the links. Is this the price you pay for a light carbon frame? Perhaps. I did not feel this when pedaling or much at all when cornering, but I did notice it under the conditions I mentioned.
Back to our 3 hour loop, a lot of singletrack climbing brought us back to the top of the ridge where we hit 3 miles of very rough and fast downhill jeep road. The climbing part had some very tricky, perched on the nose of the saddle pedaling sections and the VPP was excellent in keeping me moving forward and up. The downhill was the end of the ride and here I was surprised that the Tall Boy felt like the suspension was not working for me. It seemed like it was having trouble responding to the rapid, continuous sharp ledges. In fact, even the fork felt taxed here. I had jumped up from 170 psi in the rear shock to 190 psi and I preferred that setting for all parts of the trail but here. Could it be that more tuning was required? Could be and that is the problem sometimes with a relatively short term test period: you don’t always get those things sorted out.
Back at the barn I sat back and looked at the Tall Boy for a while. Would I buy it? What would I change? Who would like this bike? Well, I liked it very much. It is not a budget frame, but the light weight and carbon build brings a lot to the table. Things like the forged bottom link with zerk fittings are very nice and the head tube junctions and bottom bracket area look stout and gorgeous all at the same time. I am still on the fence about carbon as an all around MTB material but I think that will change over time as it becomes more proven. I do wonder about the rear flex but that is as much a design issue or compromise as it is a materials thing.
I would run the bike with a 120mm fork for the looser and rougher areas that I ride. It would tip things toward stability VS. snappy steering and I could live with that. Also, the VPP rear end feels plenty capable of balancing out a 120mm fork. But, if I was looking to turn on a dime and get change back, the 100mm fork is it.
The Tall Boy is a significant bike in many ways, not just for what it represents for Santa Cruz as a first jump into big wheels, but for 29er buyers as well. It is a very versatile bike. While this parts build was not focused on weight savings, a racier build could make for a fast race/endurance bike. A 120mm fork and bigger tires/wide rims, gravity dropper post, etc, and it could be a pretty darn fine trail bike. I am not sure if the chassis is up to serious, repeated all mountain type of riding but I do not know that it is not either. If that was what I wanted to do, I would spend less money on a heavier aluminum frame since the weight savings of the carbon gets to be moot at some point there.
After all this, I wanted to talk with Mike Ferrentino about the Tall Boy, see what the thoughts were behind the bike, and get a feel for this groundbreaking bike from the Santa Cruz side of things.
Editor’s note: And that is exactly what we did. Look for a interview with Santa Cruz’s marketing wonk, Mike Ferrentino, in our next installment on the Santa Cruz Tall Boy. Then Grannygear will gather together some local riders to get their reactions to the ride of the Santa Cruz Tall Boy and a final few thoughts from Grannygear will round out this test/review. All of this coming your way soon!

















Good read. Don’t hesitate to be specific about angles and reasons for your preference.
Thanks
Thanks for the thoughtful insight. How did this compare to the Specialized Epic.
I look forward to your response.
Way ahead of ya! Part 4 or 5 will be a comparison between the two bikes so check back.
grannygear
That is a lot of coin for pedal bob…
@jeff.
Well, that is an odd statement, as if $$ equates to lack of suspension activity under certain circumstances. The Tall Boy, as I understand it, was designed to have a slight falling rate in the beginning of the travel and ends up rising rate at the end. The intent seems to be, to have a very supple feel on smaller trail bumps etc. That pretty much means that, for some folks tastes, ProPedal will be called upon to keep that in check regardless of how smoothly you pedal.
Pedal Bob can also be expressed as squat or anti squat as has been pointed out to me.
So, cost is no indicator of the tune of the suspension from the maker of the bike. The Tall Boy feels the way it does on purpose. And, frankly, I think that the PP setting does not compromise the bike at all. I am not sure I have ridden a bike that did not need some kind of platform effect to be all things on all days equally…oh wait, yes I have. It’s called a hardtail. Other than that, all FS bikes have a compromise somewhere in the design. The trick is to buy a bike that meets your idea of the perfect compromise.
Don’t get on the Tall Boy as a lesser bike due to a switch on the shock until you ride it. It is a very, very good bike and until I find the perfect bike (still waiting), the Tall Boy will do just fine.
grannygear
Great read – since your talking to Mike might as well tell him you want a 120 fork to test lol. Trust me loving mine
So – I am wondering if the Tallboy feels much different than the Pivot 429? The Pivot is super stiff (by all accounts) and has a half inch longer chainstay, but other than that, the geometry is more similar than different.
Some one on this site has done a ride report on a 429 – I know its heavier, but how does it compare. Some say the 429 is racey, but they throw a 120 fork on it and say its an ideal trailbike.
Seems a lot like the comments you made above, but it seems like it would be a more efficient pedaler.
@JJJ
I do not recall if GT has been on a Pivot 429. I rode one briefly at Demo days and that was 2 yrs ago. Hard to compare at this point. I remember enjoying the 429 I rode, but besides that? Too much water under the bridge to be fair ’bout it.
I remember reading that Chris Cocalis had the suspension on the 429 tuned toward a firmer ride and that is not the case for the VPP Tall Boy. You can make the Tall Boy firmer of course, but you may not be able to ‘plush up’ the 429.
Interestingly enough I just put a Rock Shok Monarch on the Tall Boy to see how it contrasts with the Fox RP23. Right off the bat it has a ‘nother feel to it..subtle, but different. I am going to swap back and forth and see.
grannygear
What I am particularly interested in SC is their answer to longer travel 29ers like 120mm ans up. You guys talk alot putting a longer fork why not put more travel in the rear, heh ?
I’d like Mike Ferrentino address this very subject without marketing stoogy double speak.
Yeah I shall keep repeating myself until it is done. Sorry guys it’s for your own good.
“The light weight and carbon build brings a lot to the table”
What do you mean ?
“I am still on the fence about carbon as an all around MTB material”
Why ? I thought the Tallboy would prove carbon strenght ?
Meh.. I will keep my rigid steel.. nice read though. Some of the things you pointed out, are the reasons I switched to a rigid bike. I suppose there will never be a suspension design that can do two things at once. Platform and supple are not compatible.
@Jericho
Well, let us look at the complete sentence for context: “It is not a budget frame, but the light weight and carbon build brings a lot to the table.” In other words, it ain’t cheap but you are getting a light and beautifully made frame for the cash. You could pay the same amount of money for a heavier aluminum frame from another builder.
As far as the Tall Boy being the proof positive of carbon fiber construction being ready for us to ride off into the sunsets on? Well, it looks like a very nicely built bike and I have no reason to think that it will not last and be all it needs to be. But so have other bikes that have failed in the first year.
To put it in perspective, only time will tell whether or not it will go the distance but that is true of any bike that is new, carbon or not. And, I expect that at some point in time we will no longer need to have this discussion about CF…it will just be a given that it works well and will happily live in difficult conditions just like aluminum and steel. Maybe the Tall Boy is there right now, but neither you nor I know that…yet.
grannygear
Well I was looking forward to pull the trigger very soon and get that new bike to ride next summer but I think I better stay “on the fence” for another while waiting to see how things go with the Tallboy. I’m 95% convinced it could be my ultimate/final bike (as I promised to my wife when I bought the JET9
but I still fear to go through the same recall / frame failure nigthmare…
In the meantime I can’t wait to see what Mike Ferrentino has to say. Maybe that could make jump off the fence and drop the $2500 but right now I just can’t…
Hope you post you next review soon
@jericho
Some of that feeling about carbon fiber reflects my own bias and doubts and not hard facts. There are plenty of folks that have been on composite frames and had no issues. For me, it is not that I fear a riding induced failure, but more a innocuous crash that knocks a hole in the frame. Maybe I am paranoid.
And, as you mention, the JET9 shows how aluminum can be fraught with peril as well. For instance, I have no idea that the Epic 29er I am riding will not begin to fail in some odd manner like the JETs did. I can happen to the best of companies. However I have faith in the warranty process of good companies like Specialized and Santa Cruz.
There are no guarantees. Any brand new bike from anyone is a gamble. But you can stay on that fence forever, ya know.
grannygear
I really need to stop reading reviews on this bike. The more I read the more it hurts to know I won’t be getting a new frame this year. The Tall Boy is exactly what I am looking for to do endurance events (12-hour, 100-milers, and multi-day fun rides). I’ll just have to plod along on my rigid Waltworks and RIP9…oh the humanity!
JJJ – My Pivot feels like it is a more efficient pedaler, but I prefer a XC feel. The TB is plush, and I can see shock moving more. How much is body english vs biopacing? – well, I don’t know. I’m not a engineer. The more I ride the TB, the more I love it. It may not have the edge my Pivot has, but it is like butta. Creamy, whipped, butta with the Fox Fit fork. Although I would say the TB is as stiff as my El Captain, the rear with my fat butt is pretty darn stiff to me, and I’m pretty anal about stiffness. Butt enough about my fixation on derrières, stiffness, and butter.
@drdon
Thanks for that! It is what I would have guessed at, Pivot vs. Tall Boy, but you should know for sure.
grannygear
Maybe the flex in the rear is due to loose pivots. After owning it for a week, I had alot of play in the swingarm and come to find out the lower pivot shafts were way loose. Poor QC? I tightened them up and it made a world of difference. The rear end is really solid even when hammering out of the saddle. I think the bike is perfectly setup with the 120mm Fox FIT fork. I see no need to reduce travel to 100mm. I can’t compare since I’ve only ridden it with a 120mm, but I’ve been riding 100mm forks forever and I feel there is no disadvantage to the 120mm. The Tallboy is the best bike I have owned….period! It is such a blast to ride and the same old trails are that much more fun. This bike is going to be my everyday bike as well as my race bike which include XC and endurance events. It can be built pretty darn light as well. I got mine down to 24 and I can drop another pound. I’m really amazed at how well this bike handles. It’s very stable at speed and very responsive in the turns. I wasn’t sold on the whole FS 29er idea until I tried this bike. I’ve never had a bad ride from Santa Cruz. Coming from a Blur XC carbon which is a fantastic bike, I’m never looking back.
@rushak
Most of what I am feeling when riding is in the rear wheel. Some of what I am seeing when standing and twisting the rear frame section (when I grab the bike by the saddle and top of the rear wheel and pull them apart) is the frame…I checked the pivots when I got it. It is not much…the bike is certainly no noodle and any FS frame will do it to one degree or another. How much each part contributes is hard to say.
I never felt it pedaling, only under the conditions I mentioned in the article where the bike was side loaded a bit. I have come to feel that pedaling stiffness on any bike has most of the benefit from the front triangle section rather than the rear but I could be wrong…just my thoughts.
In any case, for an XL frame at this kind of weight, the Tall Boy is pretty darn stiff and I doubt there will be too many that find it otherwise. I would suggest a stiffer wheel build for 200#ers though. The stockers are not quite up to that weight it would seem.
grannygear
Post Script: Since I am getting to keep the Tall Boy a bit longer than first scheduled, and to help me come to terms with the feel of the rear suspension, Santa Cruz sent out a Rock Shox Monarch 3.3 air shock to try. Apparently the valving on the 2010 Fox RP23s are very ‘open’ or ‘free’ or ‘happy’, etc compared to previous models. Santa Cruz thought I might like the feel of the Monarch better. In a word…well, two words actually…I do.
I will comment on this more in future articles, but it was enough of a change to make me rethink somewhat the need for ProPedal on the Tall Boy. More riding is required. Stay tuned.
grannygear
@granny about the Monarch
Hmmm. That’s exactly what I was wondering and trying to get more info about. Sounds to me like obvious choices are the Fox shocks for more trail / AM riding (I would go 120 up front for this combo) and Rock Shox for XC / endurance. This would make about the most versitile bike I could dream of.
The decision of getting an Epic or Tallboy is just killing me. I am comparing to the Epic Comp package by the way. I did demo the Epic Comp all day in literally all trail / road conditions, and you were right on about everything in your review. I can’t imagine I’d be able to do a full demo on a Tallboy.
But the Tallboy with the Rock Shox package brings the price way down, which price against the Tallboy is probably the only real reason I’ve been looking for other options.
@A
Well, that is a tough choice. Either bike is a super performer. The Epic has a unique thing going on with the Brain and while the Tall Boy with the Monarch is pretty close, it is not the same. Now whether or not that matters to ya…hard to say.
The Tall Boy will end up lighter with the same parts.
The Epic might be better for a very heavy rider.
Meh…splitting hairs in some ways. I do have the comparison written but it is not telling you much new, just my opinions and conclusions.
Good luck.
You need to learn how to ride and adjust to a VPP2 bike with the RP23 unlocked, no use having that suspension in the “hardtail setting”.
The bikes capabilities and your riding will be better for it in the longrun……….ween yourself of that lever…..
@JG
You may be right. I have no doubt I could always learn to be a better rider. I think maybe my SS hardtail does that better than anything though.
Everyone has a preference. Mine is for a firmer ride. YMMV. I am gonna keep that lever off with the new Monarch shock and see if I can learn to love it.
Thanks for the suggestion.
grannygear
To everyone who is on the fence about getting a Tallboy: JUMP OFF!!! There’s nothing not to love about this bike.
Got to see one of these bikes in person this weekend. Pretty sick. Small frame, sub 26lbs with non-weight weenie parts (x9 rd, slx cranks, arch rims, hope hubs, etc). That orange looks awesome in person.
“Editor’s Note: Grannygear has a mid term report for us on the Tall Boy, one of 2010’s most talked about 29 inch wheeled bikes. From one of the few places in the U.S. that has primo riding conditions, here is his report: ”
one of the few places with primo riding conditions??
I certainly hope that comment was meant to sarcastic…..
@Spider Man: Please note the date, time, and consider the weather conditions nationwide at that point. Perhaps you will see a different meaning.
Ohhh, I see..you’re right, I didn’t take into account the date….
Sorry.