The Specialized Stumpjumper Expert Carbon 29 hard tail rig sure looks good “out of the box”, but how would the bike look after it had been ridden and dirty? Would there be any issues that would take some of that sheen off the allure of the carbon beauty? Those were some questions that I think were answered after the initial rides and now it’s time for the First Impressions.
No problems finding stumps to jump out here!
For our reviews on the Specialized 29″ers, we are fortunate to have had some input from the man in charge of all of Specialized’s 29″er projects, Eric Schuda of Specialized Bicycles. We asked Eric what the goals/intentions of the Stumpjumper Expert Carbon 29 were for 2010. Here’s what he had to tell us:
“For 2010, we completely re-designed our high performance 29er line-up. For the SJ HT 29er, our #1 goal was to make a competitive, full-on 29er competitive/xc race bike. This is most apparent in the spec of the SW (S-Works) model, but the Expert Carbon shares the same geometry and intended experience. Some of the goals were:
-Lightest weight 29er hardtail frame
-Torsional stiffness
-Vertical compliance
-Agile handling (without sacrificing descending capabilities)As with the Epic 29er, we wanted the bike to not only be fast uphill, but we also wanted to make something that descends well and is fun to ride, and makes you want to push it hard on the descents. (We) went with very short chain stays, (436mm) and a low bottom bracket, (304mm), to make the bike as agile as possible. I wanted to keep the wheelbase as short as possible, as 29er wheels already give the bike a lot of straight-line stability and confidence. (The) bigger challenge was making sure the bike was maneuverable and easy to toss around. I am not a fan of going with super steep head angles to help with turn-in, so we focused on pulling the rear end in as much as possible, and going with a low bottom bracket.”
With that background of intentions and goals, I set out to see if Specialized executed them well in this carbon fiber wonder bike. First though, I had to make a slight change to the bike to accommodate conditions. The Stumpy came set up with Fast Trak LK treads which in dry conditions would have been great. However; we’ve had a wet Fall season here, and with all the downed leaves, slippery roots, and mud, I needed extra grip. So on went a pair of Captains. Control 2.25 on the front and S-Works 2.0 on the back. Okay, so with that change off I went.
My first sensation was that the Stumpjumper’s cockpit was one of a racer. Stretched out and up over the front wheel a bit in an aggressive XC stance was where the set up places you. Perfect for going fast up and down hills. The handle bars felt oddly straight, but I have been testing a lot of “alt-bars” lately, so that sensation may only be mine, not yours. That said, the bars felt wide and some folks may want to trim off a bit there. Better to have that option though, so I see this as a positive thing. The Body Geometry saddle is nice, but again those are personal preferences. I got along with it just fine.
The bike feels stiff out of the gate. When the pedal goes down, no lateral movement at the bottom bracket is perceived at all. Even when honking on the pedals in the big ring over a rise in the trail, there is barely a hint of movement there. Okay, so they nailed the bottom bracket stiffness. Check. The front end has that tapered steer tube and there is a lot of material up near the head tube on this carbon frame. It all added up to a solid feel in corners, off cambers, and when sawing on the handle bars in out of the saddle climbs, the front end felt immovable. No twisting sensations at all. Great cornering resulted in as far as you knew there would be no wiggles, no confidence sapping womble in techy sections. The bike is torsionally stiff as any 29″er I’ve ridden. Okay, so they got that right. Check again!
One of the stiffest front triangles on a 29″er you are likely to find right there.
Okay, so how was she in the rough stuff? Well…..it’s hard to put a finger on this. Carbon fiber is a weird deal. Designers are supposed to be able to add in compliance and stiffness where ever they want, or so we are “sold” to believe. I can’t say that the smoothness is evident in such a dramatic way as the stiffness was elsewhere, but there is something going on with the ride quality while you are in the saddle. Could it be the extended seat post? Maybe the tire pressure? Is the frame actually doing what they claim- giving vertical compliance? Hmm…….the best answer I can give is “yes”. Yes to all three, I would say. It isn’t a “steel” kind of springiness, and it certainly isn’t suspension, but it is nice riding. I will say that much right now. Would I give this goal a “check mark”? No, not yet. More time in the saddle is necessary to ferret that out for certain.
That 36T cog is almost as big as the disc brake rotor!
The components on the Stumpjumper Expert Carbon 29 bear mentioning here. I was totally smitten with the Fox shocks at Interbike this year and the 2010 model on this bike does not disappoint. Great tracking and a bit more supple feel than Fox’s earlier efforts for 29 inch wheels. The travel is all usable here too without going too far into the sag with your initial set up. Good stuff! The drive train pulled off swift gear changes whenever I wanted. Typical stuff for such a high end rig. The Elixir CR brakes are some of my favorites and performed flawlessly. No “turkey gobbling” here. Lots of power and I liked the decent level of modulation.
Now as for this Shimano 12-36 cassette- I have to say, that is a ridiculously low gear! I tried it out once and while I was traveling at a speed that was better than walking speed, and usable in that sense, the torque I could generate made keeping the front wheel planted a real chore! Out on my trail rides, I never even got close to needing the 22 X 36T. Not even when I was tuckered out. Long, grinding Rocky Mountain or Alps climbers may love this feature, but in my mind a XC oriented bike made for competition doesn’t really call out for this gearing. A lighter weight XT or SRAM cassette with a 34 low would have been plenty here, I think. On the plus side, the 34 was used quite a bit in combination with the middle ring, so maybe there is a place for such gearing in the back, but maybe with a 2X front end. (See our Epic Marathon First Impressions for more on that) At least speaking in XC racing terms.
Finally, handling: On climbs the bike did what you would expect a shorter chain stay bike to do. It climbed really well! That stiff chassis only made it better. The bike had a very stable down hill manner, so in that context, you really could let the Stumpy rip and feel very confident. The Fox shock did its job and the low BB with the stable front end were all working to allow me to rip any descent I had a mind to without fear of bouncing off line. That same front end stability made the tight twisties a place where you had to use a bit more of a head and shoulders lead into the corners with a drive off the back wheel exiting them to get around in the fastest manner possible. A bit of steering with the rear wheel out of the corner was done not with the brakes, but by driving my hips back over the rear wheel on exit and getting off the front end a bit. The lead into the corner was where I would “set” the front tire. Not at all like steering a “quick” front end where all you have to do is lead in with your hip a bit and off she goes. That isn’t to say the Stumpy handles badly, it just means that the rider with this cornering style will get along with the Stumpy fine. It just takes a bit of “body English” to get around the tight spots quickly, but it’ll do it and hold the line very well. Handling? We’ll give that half a check due to the learning curve in dealing with the tight single track. But this bike can rip it under the right rider.
Okay, that’s it for the First Impressions on this carbon wonder rig. I’ll be back with a final review soon.
Note: This product was provided to Twenty Nine Inches at no charge for reviewing. I am not being paid or bribed for this review. I will give my honest opinion or thoughts through out.
That bike looks really cool, and well suited to my local trails. I almost bought one, but decided to build up a vassago jabberwocky instead…really wanted a SS and didn’t want to spend $3300. Looking forward to the rest of the review.
Wow GT… you’re blowing a whole in the whole industries’ propaganda campaign.
It sounds like you’re “thinking” carbon fiber isn’t needed on a MTB bike and that a 36 is too low in a 9 speed configuration…
One morning your going to wake up and and find your website down and a pair of bloody thumbshifters on your pillow.
WATCH YOUR BACK!!! LOL
Great writing, thanks
x2 on Toddres comment
Say anything about some big company and they send a man in a black suite to your door with papers alleging the bike is not your property. I hope you cleared your review with the home office first. Document everything
on a lighter not do you think the cornering issue might be more of a 29er thing in general than frame specific? Or does the geometry put you too high on the wheelbase?
I see a need for carbon in the mountain bike world but not at twice the price of all other materials industry wide btw… and props to Toddre for calling a 29er a mountain bike.
That bike rocks!When specialized brings it you know its dialed!Kowabunga BRAH!
So, the real question is what 2×9 cranks are compatible with that BB? And, of those that are, which give real advantages over just adapting a 3-ring crank to that duty?
Also, some of the extra weight of that big cog can be recouped by removing the pie plate. For shame!
@Toddre: Well, it is hard to argue that ultimate stiffness and low weight can be had any other way than carbon fiber, but unless you are aiming for podiums or have the cash anyway, it is hard to justify the gains over a well made, hydro-formed aluminum rig. Yes- the carbon frame is lighter/stiffer, but at what cost? It would appear that the cost is pretty steep!
@BigChris: I think that how the designers and product managers set the parameters for the handling was why the handling is what it is. They acomplished it by using a slightly slacker head angle and slightly lower BB. Again- it isn’t “bad” handling, slow, or sluggish. I would just stick with what I have said- which is it requires a bit of “style” to get around tight stuff really quickly. More open trails, with longer sight lines and sweeping curves would probably favor this geo. But as I said, under the right rider, this frame should rip.
If you prefer a quick handling, steering from the hip, slight lean type of feel that would get you carving around corners super fast in tight woods, this isn’t your bike. That kind of bike wouldn’t handle the steep downs and fast DH’s as well as the SJ Carbon Expert though.
Finally, I wouldn’t say that the SJ Expert Carbon “put you too high on the wheelbase”, but rather the opposite. It wants to stretch you out over that short wheelbase in an aggressive XC position. Of course, that all could be changed by swapping out some parts, but……….
So it sounds like 1 of the 4 goals was nailed – Torsional Stiffness. Then two of four the jury is still out on – Vert Compliance and Handling. What about the first – lightest 29 HT? How does the weight compare to some of the similaryly priced titanium options: Lynskey Ridgeline and Voodoo Zaka? 25lbs seems to be on the heavy side when most 26/FS bikes are just a smidge over 23lbs.
first upgrade i made on mine was to ditch the old school 750 series triple crank and press fit bb and put the specialized s-works bb30 carbon dbl crank in which this frame is designed around, i also swapped the 36t cass for a sram 990 11-34, slapped on a pair of specialized roval 29er wheels, took the tubes out of the tires and TA DA, 23 lbs on a 19″, and still way less than the s-works, which was my first choice
Thanks for your report so far GT. must say the bike looks superb.
What is it with you carbon haters and fear mongerers?
If properly engineered it can be the lightest and strongest material you can get and it doesn’t fatigue like aluminium.
GT is the fork the standard offset or something else? Should one run a larger offset with those more relaxed angles then the bike might steer perfectly?
Be interesting if you could try the bike with a longer offset fork or even a rigid fork like a niner. That should get the weight down a bit.
@ elscorcho – try 20lbs for a 29er carbon hardtail. That’s my bikes weight. Its all dependent on wheels and other components as you should know.
@elscorcho: The goal was “Lightest weight 29er hardtail frame”. That doesn’t necessarily mean you will get the lightest bike overall. I cannot tear the bike down completely to get a bare frame weight, (time constraints, tools necessary) but it isn’t hard to see that some upgrading would drop weight in a hurry here. I have a set of Edge carbon wheels I am going to pop onto this and weigh it again to get an idea on what a “race” wheel set would do to the weight. stay tuned for that.
@professed: The Fox is their standard offset for 29″ers (believe that is 46mm) and it “steers perfectly” as is. I think folks get confused with offsets and believing that there is “one that is perfect”.
My experience is that certain offsets/head angles favor certain styles of riding. Your “perfect steering” may not be my “perfect steering”, if you follow me. In that sense, what I am trying to portray is that the SJ Expert Carbon steers best in a “certain manner” that can be learned easily if you want to.
I agree that a swap to a different off set fork would be fun to try and rigid as well. Who knows- It may very well turn out to be someone elses “perfect steering”.
@elscorcho – Indeed, 25 pounds seems a bit heavy, when my 2008 Superfly goes 23 with my clunky 550g M647 peddles. The forks are both Fox 29, though the Speccy might be a tad heavier with the tapered steerer. Also, my Fly has Bontrager carbon/alum cranks (now Truvativ Noir, basically), don’t know if they are that much lighter.
In fact, my stock SF 100 FS is just a smidge over 25 pounds with those same DH pedals.
That said, the Fly HT is a grand more, and the Sworks may be lighter.
At the end of the day, I think Spec is doing folks a service by putting carbon in this price range, and I would love to demo it (or its pricier Sworks brother).
In fact, GT and GG could do a huge service by comparing the new carbon HTs as all their data comes together, with Niner, Felt, etc. Then, start all over with the carbon FS’s.
There you go, GT, job security!!
GT,
Looking forward to the follow up assessment. I’m going to buy either the epic or the expert HT (or S-works) but have become torn. I’ve been riding full suspension since 98 and haven’t looked back but I through a leg over a buddies 29 HT and it felt surprisingly compliant over the rough. I need someone to make a decision for me
Here are the particulars: I will race 5-6 times this year and like / am competitive in the expert class (read: I can’t ride a boat). I live in Boulder, CO (ride in the area, Winter park, Fruita) where there are plenty of rocky rides but nothing too outrageous. I don’t consider myself a aggressive trail rider, hucker, or anything close to an all-mountain kind of guy although I’ll ride most things – I just don’t mind getting off when it feels over my head – I consider myself a XC guy that loves epics and a few races. I’m 41 and 160 lbs for what that’s worth. I’m smooth on the bike and light – I don’t bash over things. I currently ride a blinged out 08 Stumpy FSR – 22lbs. No issues with it but cannot help but wonder if the 29 will make me a bit smoother / faster. I climb better than most and descend very average -something I would like to get better at.
I’m torn – lighter Stumpy HT or Epic 29? You pick it. PS – I need to know by the 9th so I can order it through the team dealio.
Cheers
GT
Follow on to my recent post: Descending – I don’t currently lose time in a race but I don’t gain time. I’m not great but not terrible either. Also, I do set my stumpy up as stiff as I can (had the rear shock tuned to be like the epic) when I race and pretty stiff when I trail ride. i.e. I don’t want plush – The primary reason i like the stumpy 08 is that it has a slacker head angle and descends better than the epic (26) but I can get it to a competitive race weight.
Tnx
@Jinxtown: Well, here are a couple of things to consider first about a 29″er- #1: They are really stable on down hills. Those bigger, slightly heavier wheels will act as a better gyroscope, wanting to stay upright. This translates to a more secure feeling on the downs. Add to that the better roll over due to the lower angle of attack of the wheels and I think that you’ll not be missing the suspension much. Especially when reading your description of your riding style. (Thanks for being so detailed, by the way)
Now as for the Specialized 29″ers we are testing- The Expert Carbon would be a sweet ride, but- some of the component choices translate into a bit of weight here. That could be taken care of with some upgrading, but then- maybe a S-Works 29″er would be a better way to go?
Something to think about with your special situation. If the $$ worked out, I’d get the S-Works model, but if not, the Expert Carbon, with a race wheel set and a couple of component upgrades would be really a great, lightweight, smooth rig.
G.T.
Have you teasted the alloy version? Not considering the components, what do you think about the two frames? In detail, do you think that with an appropriate upgrade it (the alloy one) should be a good and cheaper option for race?
Thank you.
GT, i’m looking at getting one of these babies…….do you see any need for a Q15 fork or does the front end suffice as is?
Thanks for the review.
@dirtytommy: No- we haven’t thrown a leg over any of Specialized’s alloy hard tails. Again though- alloy shouldn’t be discounted as an appropriate frame material for a racing hardtail. You will be giving up a small amount in weight and stiffness- but it isn’t that much- and you can save a whole bunch on the price of entry. Downside (besides the weight/stiffness) would be that you may need/want to upgrade more parts than you might have to/want to with this bike or an S-Works version.
@trudat: The SJ Expert Carbon comes with the 10mm DT Swiss RWS skewers stock and they are so close to thru axle stiffness I think it would be very hard to tell the difference while riding. I certainly can not.
Thanks for the article on the SJ; I have one on order. I was wondering about the wheels. I cannot find anything about this rim/hub combo or the weight. Is it a good set-up? Can you tell me about the crankset/rings. How do you think that the SJ will handle differently then the Supperfly that I have been using for almost 2 years? Just so you know, I had big rocks hitting me frame and it never damage anything. I also weigh 195lbs and ride in BC Canada 3 times/week, all year long and the carbon set-up has been perfect
Thanks again
Any chance we’ll see a comparision with Cannondale’s new Flash 29er Carbon in the near future?
@ygagnon: The wheels are a special edition DT Swiss rim laced to a DT Swiss rear hub and a Specialized front “Hi-Lo” hub with alloy nips. The wheels ship with tubeless rim strips installed, but when you get the bike, have the LBS either build up the center channel with a coulple runs of electrical tape, or a new double run of Specialized’s “blue” tape. The stock install won’t work. Valve stems come with the system.
The wheels have DT Swiss RWS skewers and the wheels feel plenty stiff, but are not the lightest set of wheels I’ve handled. I haven’t actually weighed them, but I’d guess somewhere close to 2000gms for the set. (I’ll have to weigh them before the review ends)
I have only ridden a Superfly for a short demo ride, but judging from that and other rider feedback I would say that the Specialized will ride slightly stiffer and the shorter wheelbase will feel a bit quicker/ climb differently.
@EBsuburban: My Cannondale contact has been pretty scarce of late. I’ll have to say that for now- it doesn’t look good.
After learning on and riding quick handling rigid and hardtail bikes (Bridgestone and Fat Chance) on rocky and rooty singletrack in New England, I decided to give full suspension a try. I rode fs for a few years but I noticed I enjoyed riding more on my Fat than my full suspension bike.
So a couple of years ago, I got a Santa Cruz Chameleon (which I like a lot). Now I’m thinking it’s time to try a 29er. It’s advantages seem perfectly suited to my rocky / rooty trails.
Two of the bikes I am considering are the Niner Air9 and the Sjumper Expert Carbon 29 (great timing with this article).
Now my riding style is probably what you’d call sedate. I don’t race, huck, jump or do tricks. I’m not in it for the speed. I’m not an adrenaline junkie and I’m not a fan of getting hurt.
All I like to do is ride. Nothing fancy just all trails, under all conditions, all times of the day or night.
I’m also a clydesdale push 250#.
Two of the traits I appreciate in a bike is quick handling. I like to carve turns and feel “like I’m on rails”. The second trait is a feeling of being directly connected to the drivetrain. I think this is why I didn’t care for full suspension. I always felt there was a buffer between myself and the rear wheel. I don’t feel that with a hardtail. To add some comfort to the bike, I do use a suspension seatpost.
So, with all that said, how do you feel the Expert Carbon 29 compares to the Air9? And are these two of the bikes I should be considering based on my riding habits?
Thanks
@LeonD: Well, it is always tough to recommend a bike for terrain and riders I am unfamiliar with, but I did seize upon one thing: That you liked the Santa Cruz Chameleon. Here’s the link for the geo on that bike: http://www.santacruzmtb.com/chameleon/index.php?geometry=1
So, as you can see from looking at that, the Santa Cruz features a shorter chainstay, slacker head tube angle, and a higher bottom bracket.
The AIR 9 wouldn’t even be close in those terms- speaking in relation to a 29″er that would be like the SC.
The Stumpy is close. Shorter chain stays- Check. Slacker head tube angle- Check. However; the bottom bracket doesn’t translate as well. The SC Chameleon is pretty tall in that respect, and the Stumpjumper’s is a tad on the low side, even for a 29″er.
So, all things considered, the Stumpjumper is closer to what you are looking for here. At least in terms of your parameters.
Thanks GT.
I didn’t mention that I had the last generation Chameleon. I looked at the geometry of the latest one and it’s slacker in every area.
So I compared my L Chameleon to the M Air9 and the 17.5 SJumper. To me, the biggest difference is the Chameleon has a slacker head angle than the other two.
If I’m reading this correctly it looks like the Air9 would be a quicker handling bike than the SJumper. And both would be quicker than the Chameleon.
This is all based on specs. I’m curious in the real world how the Air9 compares to the Sjumper. In addition to the geometry, how does the frame material affect the ride? I’m guessing they are both very stiff but does either have something extra when it comes to ride quality?
Thanks again for your help,
Leon
Wow, great review. Well written, concise and to the point. No blaah blaah here. The bike sounded pretty good as well.
GT,
Thanks for the great review. I have been riding Full suspension Specialized bikes since 2002. First an Sworks FSR and now an 2005 Epic with a mix of the 2002 parts and some new ones. Its finally time for a new bike. I have it narrowed down to another Epic (26″ marathon carbon) or the Stumpy Carbon Expert 29″. I am looking to find a bike that will make me the fastest possible in my 12 race Wisconsin series. I am 6’2″ and will race at 180 lbs. Open fire lanes is my strongest area of biking while singletrack and decending are my weakpoints. Any feeback will be greatly appreciated.
@Jvog: Thanks for reading. As to your question, I think this bike will definitely enhance your DH sections. 29″ers are a bit more forgiving/stable on downhills and because of that trait you’ll feel more confident in lettin’ er rip. As for single track, this might be a good thing too. Racing can put you in the red zone, tire you, and make for a situation where a bit more stable handling is good. I think in that regard this bike is well suited for racers.
My “lease” on testing the bike has been graciously extended into spring, so I will be back with further impressions after the weather breaks.
I have the aluminum version of this bike (Stumpy Comp 29) and raced it many times last summer in the north east. It has taken a beating and has never missed a step. It is without a doubt the most torsionally stiff bike I have ever ridden. I can crank on the big ring with all my might and I don’t get any chain rub or perceived flex in the BB. IIRC I could get the head tube to twist a bit while out of the saddle and cranking on the bar but the BB doesn’t budge. It is light years stiffer than my Scott Scale. It simply flies on fire roads and double track because you can just hammer it.
On single track and tech stuff it has been good to me too. Handling is responsive and precise. Through tech stuff and through rock gardens it is stable and I was always able to keep it under control and pointed where I want. It has never bucked way out of line or scared me by getting out of hand flying over patches of rocks.
My only complaint is the riding position which Guitar Ted described perfectly. It is aggressive and racy. Definitely stretched out and forward. I had to shorten the stem a lot to dial it back but for more aggressive riders/racers that is probably not an issue. I prefer a more relaxed riding position like the Stumpy FSR but for going bonkers fast, the Stumpy HT is where its at.
Mine is sitting at the shop waiting to be picked up!!! American Classic Wheels will be in later in the week and S Works crank is on back order. I am also upgrading brake rotors and cassette on the race wheels and setting up the other wheels for foul weather conditions. Sub 23 lbs or bust once its ready!!!
Besides the motor
any other upgrade recommendations??
Jeremy
For sizing….How tall are you? Did the 19 inch frame feel OK? Great review, Thanks!
@Bambura: I am 6 ft. tall with 33 inch inseam and got a 21″. The 19″ felt a little more comfortable to me because of the shorter reach and I could have easily gone with a 19″ and been happy. In fact, sometimes I wish I had gotten the 19. However after an extensive fit session we found that my proportions were not normal and the 21 put me in a better position for making power…. which it totally did… it’s just not as comfortable.
I am 6′ 1″ with a 34″ inseam and I went 19.” When the bike came in the set it up for me based on last springs fitting on my 2005 Epic. The Shop manager did recommend a longer stem but other then that everything looked okay. Sitting on the bike I feel just fine but due to Wisco winters I wont get to ride it for a month yet. I asked both the shop owner and manager and both recommended the 19″ I will say we didnt really do much “fitting” for this specific bike purchase however.
The American Classic wheels are in at the shop and I get to pick them up tomorrow!!! The S works crank and bar ends are on back order and not coming till mid April… Its hard checking out this bike everytime I go downstairs knowing I can ride it yet. I will say its very motivational sitting next to the trainer!!!
@bambura: Thanks for the kind words.
I am 6’1″, cycling inseam of 34″, shorter torso than legs. The 19″ fits really well.
GTed,
Thanks for all of the info and follow-up you’ve provided. Very thorough and useful in helping to make some decisions on this. Are you going to be posting your final review soon? Would be great to hear anything more you’ve observed. Thanks!!
@NChris: Thanks for the kind words. Yes- There will be a final review, but since this winter has been an exceptionally snowy, brutal one, I have not been able to properly test ride the bikes anywhere for quite sometime. Once the trails clear, I will be back at it and another update on this bike and the Epic Marathon that I am also testing will be posted.
Are you suppose to keep the bars longer on a 29er? This bar is HUGE compared to the bar on my Epic.
@jvog: A wheel spinning wants to stay pointed in the direction it is facing. It is called gyroscopic force. If you ever get on a high wheeler, you will really get a lesson in this phenomenon. So while a 29″er has a larger diameter and a slightly heavier wheel, the gyroscopic forces of a 29 inch wheel are greater to overcome than a 26″ers. Having a wider bar helps with leverage to overcome that. And of course, you can always cut down a handle bar. It is quite difficult to safely add length to one.
So Why does specialized not make a ridged stumpjumper anymore that sucks. I want a carbon framed stumpjumper with no suspension!!!! Anyone have any advice.