When our morning conference commenced at the Gary Fisher Press Camp, we were graced by the prescence of Jeremy Horgan-Kobelski, a two time 2009 National Champ, Heather Irminger, herself also a two time National Champ this year, Travis Brown, who is a Mountain Bike Hall of Fame member, and 29erCrew racer Jesse LaLonde, who has numerous race wins aboard single speed 29″ers. These racers had quite a lot to say about how 29″ers have worked their way into their stables.
Heather Irminger’s Superfly hard tail in the National Championship paint scheme.
Two years ago, I was honored to have interviewed Heather Irminger at Sea Otter. At that time, the Subaru/Fisher Bikes race team had a choice of whether they wanted to ride 29″ers or 26″ers on any given race day. Heather told me then that due to the impending run up to the Olympics, she was not going to risk any new changes and would be campaigning the smaller wheeled Fisher for the year. However; she did say at that time that she had recently began training and riding for fun on a 29″er due to the influence of her husband, JHK, who was really talking up some of his experiences on a 29″er with her over a period of time.
Fast forward to early 2009 and Heather was starting to contemplate actually riding a 29″er for the season coming up. She stated that it was not going well. She wasn’t feeling comfortable on the 29″er, and was about to give up on the entire idea of ever trying one in a race situation. Of course, being 5’4″ tall, who would blame her? Conventional wisdom was that small riders don’t work on 29″ers, or so it was believed. Travis Brown, who picked up the story, also agreed that even to his mind, the idea that Heather may not be suited to a 29″er was entirely possible. However; the feedback from team members Sam Schultz and JHK kept ringing in Heather’s ears and she liked what she was hearing, but wasn’t feeling it on the bike.
Travis Brown then said that they took measurements off of 26 inch bikes Heather had been riding and found that they matched up better with a medium sized Superfly. Heather had initially been trying a size small. Once on the medium, the bike clicked and Heather said she felt more “in the bike” than “on top of it”, which was confidence inspiring for her. Heather said to us that “…being cradled inside of something is a really powerful feeling”, as she tried to translate the transformation of just changing sizes on the Superfly. Race results showed she was on to something as the two National Championships attest. Not only that, but Heather had a personal best finish of tenth at the World’s in Australia this year. Heather’s ride at the National Championships was the first time a 29″er had been ridden at Nationals by a pro.
Heather is so convinced that 29″ers are her future in race rigs that she exclaimed, “I don’t even know where my two-six bike even is right now!”
JHK’s two National Championships were won on a Superfly 100
Jeremy Horgan-Kobelski has been on board a 29″er off and on for a few years now, but this year he fully committed to racing the entire year on 29″ers for the first time, not even having a 26″er built up for ’09. When I asked him about how the transition was for him, battling strong competition at a World Cup level that were on lighter bikes, Jeremy told me the toughest part then was trying to decide at each race venue which bike would be faster. His analysis over two race seasons along with continuing advancements in technology lead him to find that eventually, for him, the 26″er was slower on all types of courses. So, the move to all 29″ers all the time was easy for him for the 2009 season.
Of course, this was on a Superfly hard tail in the beginning. JHK is a self admitted hard tail proponent, so when Fisher announced to him that they would be doing a mid-year introduction of a full suspension bike for the race team, he had some doubts. However, he was won over by the performance of the bike, and after a few tweaks to the rear shock and a couple of other minor tweaks, he raced it to a local XC series win and never looked back. Two National Championships later, the Superfly 100 earned nothing but praise from this devout hard tail fan, calling the Superfly 100 “the best full suspension bike I have ever ridden” in a private call replayed for us at the Press Camp. JHK was also the first to race a 29″er at the World Championships in Australia this year.
L-R: Fisher Brand Manager Travis Ott, Jeremy Horgan-Kobelski, Travis Brown (seated), and Heather Irminger
Heather’s counterpart on the women’s squad for the Subaru/Fisher Team this year was Willow Koerber who after hearing of the other team members successes on 29″ers asked about trying one out for herself. Now it must be told that Willow is just shy of 5’2″, so again, conventional wisdom would have kept her solidly on a 26″er and no one would have thought that would be unusual. However, after Travis Brown’s experiences with Heather, he felt that possibly a small Superfly hardtail would work, and Heather advised her in this way as well. So, the bike came and was built up for her to try out.
After a 45 minute test ride at the Vermont race this year, Willow decided to race the bike in that event! In that race she scored a podium. In the first three races after switching, Willow notched a 2nd, a first, and the Bronze medal at the World Championships.
In fact, counting Katie Compton, who also appeared at the World Championships aboard a 29″er, the women for Team U.S.A scored first place in team competition and all were aboard 29″ers.
Pretty impressive results and it may just turn many folks preconceived notions about 29″ers on their collective heads. Certainly, no one could have guessed at such results even just a year ago.
Results speak for themselves. 29 is real (even for small riders). Even “experts” like the ones down at one of my local LBS will need to learn this though. The small rider/small wheel myth is going to die hard.
Would love to see more detail on Lalonde’s bike – know the G2 ‘Blade is light, but what was the rest of the build? 16 pounds! (Of course, to personally get Lalonde’s results, I will need to lighten the rider by a few – probably 50 – pounds!)
I’m 5’9″. If Travis told me to ride a Large, I guess I would.
I’m riding a 19″ Jamis Dragon 29 right now but have ridden the XL Superfly and found it to be “my size” I measured it and the measurements were very close to my 19″ Dragon.
I work in a shop that supports a team (road) and I would have to say the “monkey see monkey do” tendencies of racers looking for the edge all but promises more 29ers being raced next year.
That said kudos to Heather and Willow for being pioneers, glad it paid off.
How cool is that, that such tiny ladies are relatively acute to be convinced of 29″ as “better”, after they’ve been properly fitted and rolled a few miles.
With men, I honestly see a smaller performance boost. Some convert back, and still do fine.
Myself, once a pretty quick racer albeit well shy of top Elite level, I ran the 2003 season on a 26″ team bike, while riding my 29″ers for training. Needless to say almost, I raced like a wet newspaper. Riding a so clearly inferior bike concept, braking for corners I’d rail in training, losing traction uphill, getting stuck in sandy sections, uncomfortable bumping, sketchy tech sections, it inevitably gets to your laptimes.
My then-girlfriend once demo’d a silly racerboy set-up Fisher back in 2003 or so. Now, she is really one of the least confident technical riders out there. She loves riding, but just doesn’t have the blind courage. Riding down staircases is her absolute limit, but a tall curb is a scary dropoff to her (I’m little different I might add). Anyhow, on the 29″er, she just failed to notice dropoff she would never be convinced to even attempt when aboard her very decent 26″ bike. Women just get much more out of 29″, especially if they are less brave than Gunn-Rita and the likes. 29″ ups the technical comfort zone significantly, making every non-boring tral section taken with more confidence, thus faster.
@Guitar Ted I’ll be adamant and ask you to pose a question both to Trek and Gary Fisher designers why they don’t want to produce a Trek 29ers labelled as Gary Fisher and in GF clothing? Is it a bad idea? If so I’d like to know reasons why not to make homogenious models with the sole difference being the wheel size.
Trek suspension and Full floter would help in GF 29ers- why one brand cannot have more than one suspension design pn 29ers? What about versality?
Trek believers and lovers would switch to wagon wheelers right away, wouldn’t they?
Bike fit is obviously very important and there are many commercial alternatives to fit your fit on.
Heather Irminger’s experience reinforces my belief that there is no optimum torso to thigh angle for the human body to excel on a bike, but there is a torso to thigh angle that is optimum for an individual that is based on the angle at which most of your training has been. Perhaps using your older brother and/or dad’s bike a lot as a child initially establishes a person’s “optimum” frame fit.
Do you have any fit impressions you can share with us based on your extensive bike experience and those you have interacted with?
GT, I notice you prefer a smaller frame for your published dimensions, whereas I prefer a larger frame for mine (based on conventional fit wisdom).
It is very important of course to have adequate standover clearance if you spend time with both feet flat on the ground straddling your top tube. And I am sure weight distribution on your wheels depending on the terrain is important, such as 50% on front and back for predominantly flat terrain (as explored by 2 and 4 wheel race teams world wide).
Perhaps this is last myth to debunk to send 26 wheels to join the 24 inch wheels.
@Davidcopperfield: Well, I guess it boils down to whether or not one feels more Gary Fisher 29″ers would be sold if they copied Trek’s suspension designs. I don’t think folks are buying that Trek design because it is “superior”. I think they are buying it because the “believe it will work for them”.
Two entirely different concepts.
So, no. I do not believe Gary Fisher Bikes would benefit from your proposed idea.
@Alan 2Dogwalk: Yes- Bike fit is something that is very important. More important to finely tuned athletes than the average trail rider. To wit: Every elite racer that rode with us this past weekend was tearing into their test bikes, replacing stems, swapping spacers, obsessing over controls placements and fiddling with seat heights, shock settings and tire pressures. They were the ones the rest of the crew was waiting on to go both days we rode. But I understand that, I am not critcizing them at all.
My fit impressions are based on getting my weight distribution set so that I feel more confident, more efficient, and most comfortable on the bike as possible. To balance these things, sometimes there are compromises.
I have a shorter torso and longer legs. I need to be aware of top tube length. While I have long enough arms, if I get a bike that is too long, the front wheel weight distribution suffers. Too small and the opposite occurs. Sometimes I ride mediums, sometimes I ride Larges as a result.
Every once in awhile a bike comes along that is “inbetween” sizes and I get along with them most famously. (My Badger Dorothy, size 19inch is a prime example)
GT,
I have some concerns when it comes to fitment. I am 6’3 but do not have a long inseam. Standover can be a concern of mine. I always jump aboard the XL Frame size,but I sometimes wonder how a L would feel. I know I would be going with an offset Seat Post and longer stem but that would not bother me. Problem is the bikes that I choose to purchase/ride I never have the option to try both.
I have always thought that I might be better riding something a bit large then something to small, top tube wise. Not sure what most people think about that? Like I said, the 2010 100/Hi-Fi and the XL 837mm Standover makes me a little nervous. Not sure where that measurment is taken on the TT. It does still have a angle to it.
Weatherman,
I have some experience with your issue for myself (6″5′) and a couple of other guys who are tall in the area. There are about 4 other guys my size who all ride 29, I ride an XL NIner, another guy rides a L Niner. He is like 1 inch shorter than I am. It really depends on where your length is, it sounds like you are more torso than leg so you really should be on the longest toptube tength Large you can find. What length of stem do you use? If you ride a 130mm stem on an XL frame and it feels right then you may have to live with the standover issue. There is another dude here that refuses to ride an XL, he clearly would fit one better than the Large he rides but likes the shorter wheelbase and whippiness that the Large he feels offers.
Will the LBS you frequent not switch out stuff so you can feel out the difference between the 2 sizes? And using a set back post, unless you require it for LONG fermors is something that should not really be used to make a bike fit. Certain bikes are designed for setback posts because of the seattube angle but usually you do not want to deviate as it will alter where you apply force to the pedals. You are a proclaimed short legged person and therefore a setback post is something you should probably not consider. Stem length is how you adjust the fit for your torso.
If you are really not sure, find a shop that does bike fitting with a proven system, then you will know for sure. Hope this helps, I am sure GT and others can contribute to this, bike fit is very personal. Once you find what works, measure everything that corresponds to the fit and write it down then you can transfer it to you new ride and voila it feels the same.
GT, the gist of my idea is just to bypass stubborn Trek policy about keeping 29ers on Fisher side. This way we still can get a “Trek” 29ers however touted by Fisher. It will comply to Trek’s guidelines and will not compete with Trek bicycle lines, will it?
Whether it helps or not Fisher image or something I don’t care. the idea is to get those bikes produced by Trek into 29er realm even by stamping “GF” on the downtube. It will be just for instance fuel ex with GF, it may bear even the same colours I can live with that, but give me that bike on wagon wheels.
GF is assosiated with 29ers and GF merged with Trek. Trek=GF so why not bring the other Trek models under GF brand in 29 wheels? This is the very question I kindly ask you to pose while speaking with Trek or GF designers next time. I am very curious about the thorough answer not just economy rumblings by their spokesman.
@Weatherman: I would pretty much echo Steve-O’s comments. Your weight distribution is determined by top tube length to a large degree. If you are mostly torso, then a too small top tube will alter the front wheel weight distribution, and could result in poor handling, especially down hill. Yeah, you’d have standover, but standover only comes into play when you stop.
(Not saying you shouldn’t be concerned, but in terms of trade offs, it is less important than ride performance/handling characteristics).
Steve-0 and GT,
Thanks for the reply as always. I really feel that I am a right on the L – XL line. But as stated always jump on the XL.
My 08 Trek Fuel Ex9 was a given for a XL, as we know Trek has “actual” size on the Fuels. 120mm Stem was used.
My NINER EMD was a purpose built XC hardtail and I went with the XL. It has a long TT at 25.25inches, standover of 829mm. The bike fit me fine with a saddle clamped in the middle of the rails but I was only using a 100mm stem and could not go longer. With my Inseam and the straight TT at 829mm that is getting close to as much standover that I feel comfortable with.
My 09 Hi-Fi is a XL with a 110mm Stem and saddle centered. I feel like the XL FIsher fit me fine and of course had lots of Standover as it is only 752mm with old frame design.
The 2010 Hi-FI has the 837 standover but not positive how far up the TT from the SeatTube that is measured. I know the difference from the NINER is a touch less then a half inch more but that is a half inch “closer”. :p Other Geo on the 2010 Hi-Fi will be fine. The TopTube length I want …. just Standover is “iffy”.
You are correct Mark, Standover only matters when on and off!
I guess I should stick with the XL.
GT thanks for more of your body info. Our frame choice differences make perfect sense, I turn out to be more torso, less leg, and long arms.
Every motorized 2 and 4 wheel race team in the world use scales under each tire to scientifically balance weight based on experience with the course they intend to race.
Can you comment on whether bicycle race teams are also using this technique and any guidlines they have developed based on the topology of the course they are tuning their setup. Body weight scales turn out to be pretty common household tools.
I am pretty sure all people on all bikes can benefit from better handling associated with an optimized setup. However, I will concede more time pedaling and less time with setup is the right ratio of a person’s free time.
@Alan 2dogwalk: Well, with the exception of moto-cross, the riders/drivers and motors are not dynamic forces. Plus, the weight of a rider on a bicycle far outstrips the rolling chassis weight (bicycle) which is also unheard of in motor sports.
I am not saying that a weight distribution analysis is wrong for cyclists, but I am saying it is a very different set of parameters that must be dealt with in terms of cycling.
I do not know if the technique of weight distribution analysis is applied to cycling, but if it is, probably only at the very highest levels. I do agree something could be gained from looking at this more closely.
I would be very excited to read your results of two bathroom scales measuring your fit , ride, and terrain experiences versus wheel weight distribution, as I was with your front end geometry series. (Do not forget to enhance accuracy by comparing the different scales’ readings with a known weight approximately equal to half your body and bike combined weight.)
Oops, I forgot to confirm my guess (or tread back through all of your blog entries to get your TT perference convert to mm and go to Fisher’s geometry chart) that you went with the 19″ Fishers.
Perhaps, the data could be expanded as a tribal ritual around the campfire at the “Big Wheeled Ballyhoo.”
Many years/decades ago motorized race teams did not perform such measurements as a part of their race setup. I suspect the first crew chiefs/engineers that were asked answered with: “That is overkill!”
Weatherman,
We’re of similar size (6’2″ with short legs and long torso). You need an XL. I’ve measured them out in the flesh (carbon?), and surprisingly, the Fly 100 is a bit shorter in the top tube dimension than my personal XL Sultan trailbike.
Not sure why they did this on a pure race machine, but they did!
GT – a minor correction:
” JHK was also the first to race a 29?er at the World Championships in Australia this year.” is not exactly correct.
I saw Todd Wells race his Specialized 29er and to an 8th place – ahead of JHK and little Ken Onodera from Japan was also there on his superfly as he was last year at the world cup event. Sadly, he flatted this year and was out of the race.
The World Championship track in Australia is very technical and tight in its main climb so along with proving that smaller people can successfully race 29ers the Elite girls (and Ken) also proved that a tight and technical track can be nailed with a 29er putting another old argument to bed.