Gary Fisher Bikes Press Camp: Superfly 100 First Impressions
September 11th, 2009 by Guitar TedThe main focus of the Gary Fisher Bikes Press Camp is to give the media in attendance a clearer understanding of the Superfly 100/Hi Fi line and the distinctions between those bikes and the Rumblefish. Obviously, we haven’t ridden the Rumblefish yet, that’s tomorrow’s bike, but here are my first impressions of the Superfly 100 and how I rate it against the old Hi Fi platform.
Changes: The big story on the Superfly100 and Hi Fi bikes is the changes in the frame. We’ve hit on some of this stuff before: ABP Brake Pivot, Tapered steer tube, BB95 (carbon) BB 86 (aluminum) and the re-arranged swing arm, swing arm link,and new damper valving. I’d have to admit that these changes are all for the good, and noticeable.
Before I detail that out, let’s get some misconceptions and misinformation cleared up. First of all, the Hi Fi is basically an aluminum Superfly 100. The line up is aimed at XC/Racing and endurance/marathon riders looking for an efficient full suspension 29″er. So, the information I detail here on my impressions will transfer over to the Hi Fi as well. Secondly, the travel of the rear on the Superfly 100 and the Hi Fi rigs is 110mm. Yes…….you got that right, it is the same as the Rumblefish, but according to Gary Fisher people, including R&D honch Travis Brown, the Rumblefish is a different kind of travel. (We’ll see about that tomorrow). Let’s just say that the focus of the Superfly 100 and HiFi is a different customer than the Rumblefish and leave it at that for today.
The ABP Brake pivot made a big difference.
Trail Performance: Between the ABP brake pivot and the re-arrangement/overhaul of the rear suspension, the Superfly 100/Hi Fi line up is transformed from mediocre to awesome. The old Hi Fi had a really good, stiff front triangle, but the flex and failures of the rear swing arm demanded that Fisher go back to the drawing board and revamp the old design. What they have accomplished is simply amazing. The ABP is by far and away the number one improvement in my mind. It takes the old seat stay pivots, which were prone to flexing, and puts them in line with the rear axle. With the hub, skewer, and pivots all in the same plane, it reacts like a through axle set up, stiffening the structure laterally to a high degree. Now add in better rear brake performance, and it really gets good. I purposely tried to get the rear wheel to hop and chatter in rough sections and over rocks, and while it could be done, it was something you had to try to do. Basically, you wouldn’t ride the bike this way anyway, so it was impressive to my mind.
Now a few words about that swing arm. It was by far the “Achilles Heel” of the old Hi Fi, let’s not mince any words about that. So, I was pleased to note that the seat stay assembly is a one piece unit on both the carbon bike and the aluminum bikes. (Yes- no more carbon seat stays on Hi Fi’s- for now…) That and moving the main pivot rearward slightly makes for a shorter, stiffer unit that should stay in one piece for riders now. Amazingly, the wheelbase was shortened in the process, making switchback ups really easy. I cleaned every one we came across today with zero drama. In fact, one of them I wheelied up, driving the bike around the corner on its rear wheel. Nice! I was impressed by the stiffness and new maneuverability of this platform.
Fisher’s Aaron Mock took great pains to deliver the low down on the new shock and how the Boost Valve technology was applied to maintain a more linear mid-stroke on the shock with a much less severe ramp up at the end of the travel. Did the new technology work? Well, I can not fully judge the rear suspension off one ride, but it was far more active and smooth feeling than my old Hi Fi Deluxe’s rear end. This was interesting and I was surprised that out of the saddle efforts were not pogo stick affairs, although the plushness of seated riding would lead you to think it should be. That said, I found seated riding was the way to go, even on the steepest pitches. The front end set up, which was a wee bit taller than I usually go for my typical set up, posed to be no problem with the ups. My front wheel was planted, for the most part, and I never felt that staying seated was a liability on this bike. The best part of the old Hi Fi was the climbing, in my opinion, and Fisher has made the Superfly 100/Hi Fi even better in that regard.
Going down was fun. During our morning presentation, Jeremy Horgan-Kobelski made it clear that descending on his Superfly 100 was a big advantage over his World Cup competition, and riding this bike today, I can see why. The travel is more linear feeling than the previous Hi Fi line up, and feels better due to the stiffness of the swing arm. Another point, made by Travis Brown, was that they were seeking to find better balance front to rear with the suspension. I think it is much better in this regard than the old Hi Fi. I had a devil of a time fiddling with the suspension on that bike, trying to achieve better balance. Now, with maybe fifteen minutes of pre-ride fiddling, I can say this platform is far better, and I can only imagine that further refinements in the settings for me would only make this an even more pronounced of a difference.
Other Bits: The Fox Fork, with the FIT damper was more supple and I was getting closer to full travel out of it right out of the gate. Again, spending more time fiddling with the settings, fine tuning it, should only prove to make the fork better. I thought small bump compliance was improved, and the stroke was smooth as well, all the way across the travel spectrum. Fox has a better fork here, me-thinks. The wheels were Bontrager Race X Lite Scandium rimmed affairs and set up tubeless with XDX tires. Same performance as the old Race X Lite, in my mind. I didn’t notice any improvement in stiffness here, but otherwise the wheels were great. SRAM XO stuff worked flawlessly. Nice performance, but no better than X-9 in my mind, just lighter bits.
Availability of the Hi Fi and Rumblefish is still slated for late October, for those of you who have pre-ordered these.
Conclusions: This is a major improvement over the old Hi Fi line up. Make no mistake, the old Hi Fi was a decent rig, but Fisher pulled out the stops on the refinements and design work, and it shows in spades. How good is this bike? Well JHK didn’t even have a 26 inch bike built for ‘09, and said this bike is by far “…the best full suspension bike I have ever ridden.” High praise from someone who has to have a dialed rig to race World Cup events on. For the rest of us “commoners”, the Hi Fi line will be a stellar XC/trail/endurance rig that will work for many types of courses. I am very impressed with the refinements. The Superfly 100 and the Hi Fi line for 2010 is definitely a big step in the right direction for 29″er fans.
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Looks like fun out there!
Thanks for the thoughts! I am glad to know that the SuperFly100/Hi-Fi line-up has been changed for the better. Someone like yourself who can give us “real world” feed back is great! It counts since you are not on the Fisher “payroll”! 
Did they even have any Alum Hi-Fi’s present?
I will keep my fingers crossed that perhaps “pre-orders” do show up late October.
Cant wait to hear your thoughts on the FISH tomorrow! Ride On!
@ Weatherman: The aluminum Hi Fi line up was represented at the morning info session. I have pics I will upload later, but they did not have all the HiFi’s there.
Thanks for the kind words
@Guitar Ted you mentioned Travis Brown from Trek speaking about Superfly 100. What about his, now non-existant, 69ers? I know that he discarted the in favour of Superfly 100 and this brings the never-ending question- Will he race Top Fuel 29er labelled as Gary Fisher? Trek wants to keep the turnover on the Fisher side.
How about the weight of the Superfly 100? My experience has been that the wheelset is heavier than advertised, but what do you think the stock bike (set up tubeless) weighs in at?
@Davidcopperfield: Travis Brown, who retired from full time racing 5 years ago, only does racing now either for fun, (rare) or more often than not, for strictly R&D purposes. In fact, he raced a Superfly 100 prototype 7 times in a local to him series early in 2009. He does indeed ride Trek bikes as well for similar reasons. So, no conspiracy here, sorry.
@Race29: While I didn’t see a scale handy, I figure the Superfly pictured above, which I rode, was in the sub-25lb category, easily. JHK said his SRAM X-0 bike when he got it weighed 23lbs, and it has since gotten upgraded to XX gear, making it even lighter.
I am quite sure stock Superfly 100 bikes with the XR-1 tires and foam grips, which we didn’t ride, should easily put the bike into the 23-24lb category depending upon size.
Sounds like fisher has a fine bike. Does this bike have ample clearence on crankarms? I seem to find this one of my concerns when i cross rock gardens. Having own a hi-fi i like the improvements fisher made on swingarm flex. thx
@dan: The designers told me that they kept the BB low as possible for race type handling. I will say that I grazed my pedal a couple of times in some really lensed out sections of the single track on some rocks lying alongside the trail. Nothing to upset the bike or break my cadence though.
If your trails lean to the rougher, more technical side, and you do not see yourself racing all that much, the Rumblefish may suit you better. Higher bottom bracket on that model, and a longer travel fork, obviously.
Thanks for the report, I’m glad I came and checked here this evening. I am really interested in your views of the Rumblefish and how it compares to the HiFi. The HiFi with the lower BB sounds like a better match for me, but I am NO racer boy.
I think I’m in the market for a new bike. Will either of these bikes comes as a frameset? I use a heavy but reliable Speedhub for most of my geared riding so I’m not that interested in all the other dangley bits….
How does the G2 fork offset feel this year compared to the almost twichy feel of 2009?
The 15QR axle seems like it should be on every bike, can you comment on the fork’s flex performance without it and were you able to ask GF designers why this small weight penalty wasn’t added to reduce flex?
@Alan 2dogwalk: First off, if you didn’t like G2 last year, you won’t like it this year either. I wouldn’t characterize the handling as “twitchy” at all, my self. I’ve ridden far twitchier handling 29″ers than this. To my mind, it is a nuetral feel, but to each their own.
To your second question, I have always maintained that the old HiFi had a great, twist free/flex free front triangle. All the flex in that design was swingarm induced. Now with the E2 steerer and redesigned frame, the Hi Fi is on an all new level in terms of lateral/torsional stiffness.
I felt flex in the wheel/tire combination on the Superfly 100, but zero flex in the fork, and certainly zero flex in the frame. At least that is my initial impression. Adding a 15QR fork would be icing on the cake, so to speak, in this instance. Especially when regarding the Superfly 100, one could argue that it is overkill.
Thanks, I love your flex impressions. And I like icing on my cake.
I did not know how to describe the focus required to drive the G2 so I used BikeRadar’s words “almost twitchy”; sorry.
In near future…after riding test bike SF100 in our beskydy and around ostrava-city, czech…i will sell my present HiFi and will buy this mad rig, making happy!
)
Thanks, GT – I have been hoping for this bike for a while now, and having you confirm that this is the new bike for this season is huge.
What, exactly, has changed on the front triangle? If a 2008 HiFi rider could get a new 2010 rear triangle, would it work?
LeeT: All the shock mounting points are different for 2010. (Swing link off top tube instead of seat tube, and main pivot behind seat tube instead of in line with it are the most significant changes.)
GT you misunderstood me
I put it in simple words. does the fact that Travis Brown likes Superfly 100 will make Trek do 29ers in the future? What will be taunted instead of 69ers?
@Davidcopperfield: No. I don’t think so, at least not for the reasons you state.
@dan: Whoops! Sorry, but I just noticed your question in the thread here.
The Superfly 100 has what was described to me by the product engineers as “the lowest bottom bracket we felt comfortable with”. So, yeah……..you get better cornering, better stability, at the expense of a few pedal strikes. But keep in mind that the Superfly 100 and Hi Fi bikes are XC/Trail rigs. If you need a higher BB, the Rumblefish may be that bike for you.
Ahhh.. great review of the superfly 100!, I think this is going to be my next bike!.. agree that I’d like to see a QR15 on it too… overkill today… standard issue next season.
My question is, I am coming from a 26″ Epic S-Works, test rode a Jet 9 and will be going 29′er on my next rig, when are you guys going to be throwing a leg over the new Specialized 29′ers to see how they compare to the new Fishers?
Thanks!
@Moises: We have a date at Bootleg Canyon with the Specialized bunch to try out a couple of the bikes: Epic 29″er and the carbon hardtail. Stay tuned!
Did they mention when the Superfly 100 would be available?
@RacerWV: Yes. Now.
Nice review! When will we see the Superfly 100 v. Tallboy shootout?
@Nevada 29er: Not likely, but a real possibility that a Rumblefish may turn up. We’re hoping to do a long term test on one. Stay tuned!
I calle dseveral dealers today and availability is mid December. Bummer.
RacerWV,
I think the 100 will be VERY worth the wait!
Racer WV,
From the pictures I saw this morning it looks like a great friend of mine just picked up his Superfly 100 from our LBS. Shenandoah Bicycle Company in Harrisonburg, VA. Looks like they’re getting them already. Maybe you should call them.
Hey GTed,
How do you like the G2 Geometry and the SF 100 for really technical terrain and steeps? I live in BC and need a sled for the BC Bike race. I like the look of the SF 100 but am a bit nervous that it will be a little steep and quick for much of the terrain on the coast. Currently riding a Salsa El Mariachi w 100mm fork. Love it’s overall balance and stability just too hard on the body for 6-7 days of back to back riding.
Also considering the Big Mama, Tallboy or maybe the Rumble fish.
A race bike is great but really it needs to be almost as much an all mountain bike for this race and to be of much use after for general riding.
Be curious as to your thoughts on those or other options. Thx!
Cant wait to you get a chance to report on the new carbon Air 9
@Chris Crash: The Superfly 100 can certainly hold its own, and set up correctly, it is more hard tail like than many full suspension bikes. That said, if it were me, and I had a long, technically demanding race, I would choose something a bit different for the stability/body saving factors. Not that a Superfly is twitchy, mind you, but a bike that felt a bit more stable is always a good thing when you are deep into a ride/event and your mind and body are fatigued.
So with that said, I could see my choice going to something like a Rumblefish, Big Mama, and the Tall Boy for sure.
All of those bikes would perform really well if I were fresh, and still give me an edge when I was whupped and tired- sitting in the saddle grinding away.
Other bikes that would certainly be worth looking at would be the Specialized Epic Marathon, the GT Sensor, or any of several 4 inch travel 29″ers out or set to come out soon.
There really are a lot of nice bikes out now!
That said, look for some specific tests on a few of these selections coming up on Twenty Nine Inches soon.
Thanks GT!
Appreciate the feedback. Your spot on with respect to stability and fatigue. I need to keep that in mind. I am riding a hardtail so I know what it’s like to get knocked around after 4hrs. I also want a bike that lasts for more than a race season and is relevant to where I ride day to day and truthfully most race bikes just aren’t going to cut it here in North Vancouver.
You’re certainly right about having more choice. I now have the Titus Rockstar and the Niner RIP on my list as well.
Carbon is appealing, seems perhaps the best way to loose lbs without huge $$ and without loss of strength or longevity.
I check your site almost daily now and enjoy the articles and much of the rider comments as well. Love to see Titus Rockstar review or long term test of the Tallboy for that matter.
Keep up the good work!
CC
If I were to jump in for a quick compaison of Fly vs Tallboy. Have not seen many good ones out there…..so I will do another bad one from a short xc guys point of view.
Santa Cruz Tall Boy front end handling was as a previous post coined the word “twitchy” compared to the Fly 100. Then I found the suspension way more dialed in on the Fly. Btw, Tall Boy has 15mm ta but that was not what made the front end handle so much quicker for me anyway. Probably more the non-g2 over an inch shorter wheel base in comparable size. I was much more comfortable at 5′9″ tall climbing technical stuff on the Tall Boy. The Fly felt more like a wandering 69 degree head angle to me but I imagine for the target audience of bigger boys out there it would not be much of an issue. (Even mind you the Fly had 1.9 rubber while the Tb had 2.1.)
As far as suspension goes, since the TB did not have a boost valve rp23 on it (I guess that is the reason I really don’t know), I could not give a good compairson between the 2 bikes in that regard. But I will say I would rather climb it on the TB and descend it on the Fly. The Fly suspension felt like more than 100mm.
Fly XC and TB just trail bike ? Did not seem that way to me and the bike weights were very close with the Fly build being just a shade heavier, even though the frame itself was lighter by maybe 2 or 3 tenths of a pound.
GT what size 100 did you demo?
@THMTB: A 19″er.