Comments on: An Experiment In Front End Geometry: Fork #3 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/ 29er Bike Reviews, Rumors and News Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:20:39 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Guitar Ted http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45170 Guitar Ted Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:58:36 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/#comment-45170 Doug: I didn't mess with considering weight distribution because you tend to compensate for that as a rider. Case in point: My going from the Blackbuck fork (#1) to the Bontrager fork (#2). I was all over the trail in the first quarter mile, but by the end of the loop, I had already assimilated any differences in handling/weight distribution that the different fork had imposed. That's part of this whole experiment that I find most intriguing- the fact that a lot of the minutiae doesn't matter since the human mind can adapt for it and overcome. What the outer boundaries of what your mind/body can adapt to, I am not sure, but I am finding out that for me, it is a lot wider range than I would have thought it to be. Whether or not I feel comfortable with certain set ups is an entirely different discussion. Weight distribution is a part of that, for sure. Most trail calculators ask for a radius or a diameter overall for the wheel/tire set up you are using, so I simply measured mine with a tape measure. Schwalbe Racing Ralph on a WTB Speed Disc rim. Thanks for your comments and compliments. :) Doug: I didn’t mess with considering weight distribution because you tend to compensate for that as a rider. Case in point: My going from the Blackbuck fork (#1) to the Bontrager fork (#2). I was all over the trail in the first quarter mile, but by the end of the loop, I had already assimilated any differences in handling/weight distribution that the different fork had imposed.

That’s part of this whole experiment that I find most intriguing- the fact that a lot of the minutiae doesn’t matter since the human mind can adapt for it and overcome. What the outer boundaries of what your mind/body can adapt to, I am not sure, but I am finding out that for me, it is a lot wider range than I would have thought it to be.

Whether or not I feel comfortable with certain set ups is an entirely different discussion. Weight distribution is a part of that, for sure.

Most trail calculators ask for a radius or a diameter overall for the wheel/tire set up you are using, so I simply measured mine with a tape measure. Schwalbe Racing Ralph on a WTB Speed Disc rim.

Thanks for your comments and compliments. :)

]]> By: Doug http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/comment-page-1/#comment-45156 Doug Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:20:14 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/#comment-45156 Hey Ted, Love this series! I've done a little of this myself but nowhere near as in depth or extensive. Glad to see you mention the need to change saddle position and stem length. I think many people over look this. Did you also compensate for the change in wheelbase induced weight distribution shift? After one of my fork swaps I forgot to compensate for the wheelbase and cg change and ended up with a much different than expected weight distribution. The most straightforward way would be actually measuring before and after weight distribution but in my haste I only compensated for the angle changes. What tire diameter are you using for trail calculations? All the formulae I've tried result in a far smaller trail value than you report. The only way I can reproduce your results is with about a 3.5-inch tire. Obviously this has no effect on your results but may impact someone trying to reproduce the same ride characteristics. I look forward to the rest of the series especially regarding suspension forks. I can grasp the rigid fork concepts well enough but the dynamics of constantly changing trail, angles, cg, weight distribution, weight transfer with a suspension fork is hard to grasp. I think my head might explode if I try to understand full suspension. I think it best to find what one likes and just ride ride ride. So thanks Ted for saving me from buying many more forks as I search Hey Ted,
Love this series! I’ve done a little of this myself but nowhere near as in depth or extensive. Glad to see you mention the need to change saddle position and stem length. I think many people over look this. Did you also compensate for the change in wheelbase induced weight distribution shift? After one of my fork swaps I forgot to compensate for the wheelbase and cg change and ended up with a much different than expected weight distribution. The most straightforward way would be actually measuring before and after weight distribution but in my haste I only compensated for the angle changes.
What tire diameter are you using for trail calculations? All the formulae I’ve tried result in a far smaller trail value than you report. The only way I can reproduce your results is with about a 3.5-inch tire. Obviously this has no effect on your results but may impact someone trying to reproduce the same ride characteristics. I look forward to the rest of the series especially regarding suspension forks. I can grasp the rigid fork concepts well enough but the dynamics of constantly changing trail, angles, cg, weight distribution, weight transfer with a suspension fork is hard to grasp. I think my head might explode if I try to understand full suspension. I think it best to find what one likes and just ride ride ride. So thanks Ted for saving me from buying many more forks as I search

]]> By: Guitar Ted http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/comment-page-1/#comment-44604 Guitar Ted Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:31:13 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/#comment-44604 jason: The best answer is that it is a shorter axle to crown option for a 29"er wheel. J&B Importers, the distributor for Origin 8, markets it as an "either or" fork for 26 inch or 29 inch wheels. However; I've got to believe that with 43mm offset, Origin 8 was aiming squarely at 29"er riders. ;) jason: The best answer is that it is a shorter axle to crown option for a 29″er wheel. J&B Importers, the distributor for Origin 8, markets it as an “either or” fork for 26 inch or 29 inch wheels. However; I’ve got to believe that with 43mm offset, Origin 8 was aiming squarely at 29″er riders. ;)

]]> By: jason http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/comment-page-1/#comment-44578 jason Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:21:24 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/#comment-44578 Is the shorter fork a converted 26er or just a shorter 29er ? Is the shorter fork a converted 26er or just a shorter 29er ?

]]> By: thad http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/comment-page-1/#comment-44544 thad Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:07:20 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/#comment-44544 Interesting reading and great timing. I'm not able to test out all these variations, but your reports and numbers are extremely valuable. This also helps figure out how a bike might handle that I can see numbers on in the internet, but can't get ahold of locally to test ride. This and fork #1 sound closer to my kind of bike preference than the 29'ers I can readily throw a leg over. Keep up the good work. Interesting reading and great timing. I’m not able to test out all these variations, but your reports and numbers are extremely valuable. This also helps figure out how a bike might handle that I can see numbers on in the internet, but can’t get ahold of locally to test ride.

This and fork #1 sound closer to my kind of bike preference than the 29′ers I can readily throw a leg over.

Keep up the good work.

]]> By: GreenLightGo http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/comment-page-1/#comment-44542 GreenLightGo Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:42:46 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/08/13/an-experiment-in-front-end-geometry-fork-3/#comment-44542 this may make a good 96er conversion fork for that Nashbar frame we discussed - continuing to enjoy the test updates! this may make a good 96er conversion fork for that Nashbar frame we discussed – continuing to enjoy the test updates!

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