Comments on: Wheel Weight and 29″ers: Are We Going The Wrong Way? http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/ 29er Bike Reviews, Rumors and News Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:28:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Art http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39699 Art Wed, 21 May 2008 11:29:41 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39699 The general rule for road wheels is that anywhere south of a thousand bucks, pre-built wheels are going to be heavier than hand builts that cost half as much. Manufacturers are selling a theory that wheels built from parts designed to work together offer an inherent performance benefit. This theory only holds up under fairly loose cost constraints because those proprietary parts are so expensive to make. At the low to mid part of the price range, people are just buying these things because they look fast. The general rule for road wheels is that anywhere south of a thousand bucks, pre-built wheels are going to be heavier than hand builts that cost half as much. Manufacturers are selling a theory that wheels built from parts designed to work together offer an inherent performance benefit. This theory only holds up under fairly loose cost constraints because those proprietary parts are so expensive to make. At the low to mid part of the price range, people are just buying these things because they look fast.

]]> By: George Krpan http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39578 George Krpan Sat, 17 May 2008 23:00:20 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39578 300 bux for a 1800 gram wheelset? That's around 400 grams lighter than the wheels that are usually found in this price bracket. 24 spokes BUT this is an "engineered" wheel as opposed to a mish mash of wheel components. Shimano stuff is usually very good. A talked to a 230 lb. bike mechanic the other day who was riding 24 spoke Bontrager wheels. Again, an engineered wheel. He said they stayed true and had no problem with broken spokes. On the other hand I've broken a lot of spokes with the rear wheel that came on my KHS Tucson. They're 32 spoke laced to a Rhynolite rim. 300 bux for a 1800 gram wheelset? That’s around 400 grams lighter than the wheels that are usually found in this price bracket.
24 spokes BUT this is an “engineered” wheel as opposed to a mish mash of wheel components. Shimano stuff is usually very good.
A talked to a 230 lb. bike mechanic the other day who was riding 24 spoke Bontrager wheels.
Again, an engineered wheel. He said they stayed true and had no problem with broken spokes.
On the other hand I’ve broken a lot of spokes with the rear wheel that came on my KHS Tucson.
They’re 32 spoke laced to a Rhynolite rim.

]]> By: Dude http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39482 Dude Wed, 14 May 2008 20:43:20 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39482 I ride CK SS hubs, DT Alpine spokes, and Stans 355 x32 spokes. 1546 grams for the pair. Ive been riding them two years, no problems , at 210 lbs. I have to agree with you here GT some factory builders are missing the boat. Seems like $850-$950 wheels should be around 1650-1550 grams? I ride CK SS hubs, DT Alpine spokes, and Stans 355 x32 spokes. 1546 grams for the pair. Ive been riding them two years, no problems , at 210 lbs.

I have to agree with you here GT some factory builders are missing the boat.

Seems like $850-$950 wheels should be around 1650-1550 grams?

]]> By: professed http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39439 professed Tue, 13 May 2008 10:16:29 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39439 Cloxxki, Dunno about the "in between girlfreinds" obsession - thinking back they were both good and bad times and often the chase cost a lot of money for not much reward - perhaps that is what you are actually alluding to :-) Those times are but a distant memory for a happily married man like me! But perhaps our impressions that we have gotten over the years from riding road bikes and noticing that lightweight aids climbing and sprinting and also climbing on MTB bikes with light wheels; might not always apply? Probably need to do some testing using the scientific method to refute youhere... But where i ride there is nothing but hills and when riding on steel rims compared to Al alloy and carbon - man, i feel the difference ! For me, the jury is not out. I know the Vroomen-White boys from Cervelo will support you (partly) on the weight weenie argument but with me - lighten everything up (including my gut) brother ! Cloxxki, Dunno about the “in between girlfreinds” obsession - thinking back they were both good and bad times and often the chase cost a lot of money for not much reward - perhaps that is what you are actually alluding to :-) Those times are but a distant memory for a happily married man like me!

But perhaps our impressions that we have gotten over the years from riding road bikes and noticing that lightweight aids climbing and sprinting and also climbing on MTB bikes with light wheels; might not always apply?

Probably need to do some testing using the scientific method to refute youhere… But where i ride there is nothing but hills and when riding on steel rims compared to Al alloy and carbon - man, i feel the difference !

For me, the jury is not out. I know the Vroomen-White boys from Cervelo will support you (partly) on the weight weenie argument but with me - lighten everything up (including my gut) brother !

]]> By: Cloxxki http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39357 Cloxxki Mon, 12 May 2008 15:12:22 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39357 I disagree on the need for a lighweih wheelset to be fast. Wheels are about the lightest thing keeping you from going faster. Unless you bike is on its bars and seat, being pedaled by a han on a pedal. That's a situation to worry about wheel weight. All your hand feels is the weight of the wheel. Note : one hand, accelerating the rear wheel to 20mph within a single rotation, in the largest gear. Compare to a ful body sprint on the pedals taking 5-10 pedal rotations, after which you can't but notice yor breath trying to catch back up with you. Weiht Schmeigh. Even if your wheels would steer as nicely while being weightLESS, you'd still not gain a fraction of the speed you dream to gain with a lighter rim option. Weight is only image and mind. The latest wheels I had build where the cheapest and lightest ones up to the task I have for them. Anything lighter would reduce performance. Heavier, would mainly make them cheaper. Worrying about weight is something we should keep for times between girlfriends. Check out fo any website with "weightweenies" being mentioned as a word for its occupants to get a taste of some classic in-between-girlfriends action :-) Guys get obsessed like women over shoes. I was one of them. But then, I wasn't even between girlfriends yet. When that changed it brought a good cut in my bike expenses without riding any slower :-) I disagree on the need for a lighweih wheelset to be fast. Wheels are about the lightest thing keeping you from going faster. Unless you bike is on its bars and seat, being pedaled by a han on a pedal. That’s a situation to worry about wheel weight. All your hand feels is the weight of the wheel. Note : one hand, accelerating the rear wheel to 20mph within a single rotation, in the largest gear. Compare to a ful body sprint on the pedals taking 5-10 pedal rotations, after which you can’t but notice yor breath trying to catch back up with you.
Weiht Schmeigh. Even if your wheels would steer as nicely while being weightLESS, you’d still not gain a fraction of the speed you dream to gain with a lighter rim option.
Weight is only image and mind.

The latest wheels I had build where the cheapest and lightest ones up to the task I have for them. Anything lighter would reduce performance. Heavier, would mainly make them cheaper.

Worrying about weight is something we should keep for times between girlfriends. Check out fo any website with “weightweenies” being mentioned as a word for its occupants to get a taste of some classic in-between-girlfriends action :-) Guys get obsessed like women over shoes. I was one of them. But then, I wasn’t even between girlfriends yet. When that changed it brought a good cut in my bike expenses without riding any slower :-)

]]> By: professed http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39355 professed Mon, 12 May 2008 12:34:16 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39355 Cloxxki and Desert9r have a good point about momentum...I crashed at my weekend race due to my lightish front wheel not keeping up its momentum by not ploughing through/over some rocks but by getting caught and allowing my frame/fork to act as a nice and light pendulum around the stopped hub! I lost 10 -20 seconds or so and got some cuts and bruises due to the crash but if I was running a 2Kg wheelset I and sure that I would have been walking up the final killer pinch every lap and would therefore have lost minutes. For XC racing - in most conditions - a lighter wheelset will always benefit your riding in terms of energy saved getting it going and keeping it moving regardless of wheelsize and all those sweet benefits we get with our bigger rolling diameters.. As for wider rims, wider flange spacings and even bigger volume tyres - bring em on !! Cloxxki and Desert9r have a good point about momentum…I crashed at my weekend race due to my lightish front wheel not keeping up its momentum by not ploughing through/over some rocks but by getting caught and allowing my frame/fork to act as a nice and light pendulum around the stopped hub!

I lost 10 -20 seconds or so and got some cuts and bruises due to the crash but if I was running a 2Kg wheelset I and sure that I would have been walking up the final killer pinch every lap and would therefore have lost minutes.

For XC racing - in most conditions - a lighter wheelset will always benefit your riding in terms of energy saved getting it going and keeping it moving regardless of wheelsize and all those sweet benefits we get with our bigger rolling diameters..

As for wider rims, wider flange spacings and even bigger volume tyres - bring em on !!

]]> By: Matty http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39339 Matty Mon, 12 May 2008 05:51:51 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39339 1800 grams at 300 bones, huh. And here i thought we were talking high end racer stuff. Light, Strong, Cheap, pick two, that is kinda how the world goes production or handbuilt. But if you are lookin at a stupid high end set of wheels, i just dont see why someone would go production route if they can get a set of wheels specifically built for them, their riding style, their specifications, etc etc etc. instead of something built for the masses. The biggest mistake I see day in and day out, especially on 29ers, is the 6'3" 250 lb hammer with absolutely no grace on a bike whatsoever, thinking that they need the lightest damn thing on the planet, get a production set of wheels, and implode them in the first week or so, them want them warrantied. People should learn to ride without destroying their stuff before they buy stupid light stuff. WTB Laserdisc lite hubs on bonty mustang rims, with DT comp spokes, brass nips, should come in around 1800 or so and at about 350 bones if you look around. 1800 grams at 300 bones, huh. And here i thought we were talking high end racer stuff. Light, Strong, Cheap, pick two, that is kinda how the world goes production or handbuilt. But if you are lookin at a stupid high end set of wheels, i just dont see why someone would go production route if they can get a set of wheels specifically built for them, their riding style, their specifications, etc etc etc. instead of something built for the masses.

The biggest mistake I see day in and day out, especially on 29ers, is the 6′3″ 250 lb hammer with absolutely no grace on a bike whatsoever, thinking that they need the lightest damn thing on the planet, get a production set of wheels, and implode them in the first week or so, them want them warrantied.

People should learn to ride without destroying their stuff before they buy stupid light stuff.

WTB Laserdisc lite hubs on bonty mustang rims, with DT comp spokes, brass nips, should come in around 1800 or so and at about 350 bones if you look around.

]]> By: Desert9r http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39332 Desert9r Mon, 12 May 2008 02:39:52 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39332 Matty- Can you build me a geared, "bomb proof", 1800g wheelset for $300(customer cost)? Matty-

Can you build me a geared, “bomb proof”, 1800g wheelset for $300(customer cost)?

]]> By: Matty http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39331 Matty Mon, 12 May 2008 02:11:41 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39331 As the Wheelbuilder for my shop, I say bring on the heavy production wheelsets! Ill build you up something stupid strong and stupid light. (This means if you dont like those heavy productions around you or on the bikes, give your local wheelbuilder a shot, very rarely you will be let down by a LBS handbuilt wheel, providing they are qualified). As the Wheelbuilder for my shop, I say bring on the heavy production wheelsets! Ill build you up something stupid strong and stupid light. (This means if you dont like those heavy productions around you or on the bikes, give your local wheelbuilder a shot, very rarely you will be let down by a LBS handbuilt wheel, providing they are qualified).

]]> By: Desert9r http://twentynineinches.com/2008/05/09/wheel-weight-and-29ers-are-we-going-the-wrong-way/#comment-39325 Desert9r Sun, 11 May 2008 19:36:21 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/?p=1167#comment-39325 Guitar Ted- I included AM, due to my understancing of that type of riding/racing. As I understand it AM is Hardcore XC, with bikes like the Scott Ransom or the Lanzsports 29er, rather than a Rush/Prophet/Spider 29/JET9 Guitar Ted-

I included AM, due to my understancing of that type of riding/racing.
As I understand it AM is Hardcore XC, with bikes like the Scott Ransom or the Lanzsports 29er, rather than a Rush/Prophet/Spider 29/JET9

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