Comments on: A Question Of Wheel Strength http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/ 29er Bike Reviews, Rumors and News Sat, 05 Jul 2008 04:18:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Cloxxki http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35884 Cloxxki Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:44:19 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35884 Yes Mike, I meant that with wider hubs, only the smaller rims might become an issue. The current issue of large/large goes away of course. Yes Mike, I meant that with wider hubs, only the smaller rims might become an issue. The current issue of large/large goes away of course.

]]> By: George Krpan http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35827 George Krpan Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:50:39 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35827 Mike, thanks for the input. Some people might find that a wider bottom bracket may actually fit them better. Mike, thanks for the input.
Some people might find that a wider bottom bracket may actually fit them better.

]]> By: Mike http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35822 Mike Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:16:26 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35822 Cloxxxi - Chainline has increased from 47.5mm 51mm without widening the rear spacing because of frame manufacturers needing more space for linkages, more popular use of fat tires, and because of increased seat tube diameters limiting how far the derailleur can be dropped down. The issue caused by this isn't on the small ring (which would make small/small an easier gear to cross over to), but to the middle and large rings. When in the middle or large rings, the chain angle to the larger cogs will be greater and promote increased chain/cog/chainring wear. Again, WTB has also produced wider forks years ago with 118mm spacing for their Type II fork. I'd love to have a 29" version of this fork/hub combo. Cloxxxi - Chainline has increased from 47.5mm 51mm without widening the rear spacing because of frame manufacturers needing more space for linkages, more popular use of fat tires, and because of increased seat tube diameters limiting how far the derailleur can be dropped down. The issue caused by this isn’t on the small ring (which would make small/small an easier gear to cross over to), but to the middle and large rings. When in the middle or large rings, the chain angle to the larger cogs will be greater and promote increased chain/cog/chainring wear.

Again, WTB has also produced wider forks years ago with 118mm spacing for their Type II fork. I’d love to have a 29″ version of this fork/hub combo.

]]> By: Cloxxki http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35814 Cloxxki Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:38:59 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35814 Hasn't chainline been increased over the years as well? Chainline will only be an issue when on a smaller cog on a small ring, a rare occasion. 150mm would be a start, but I'd say : in the least go for the smallest that is dishless in 9spd, what ever that come down to. Bend chainstays to give heel some space, no biggie. Wider forks will be stiffer also. Possibly a weight-saving change. Hasn’t chainline been increased over the years as well?
Chainline will only be an issue when on a smaller cog on a small ring, a rare occasion.

150mm would be a start, but I’d say : in the least go for the smallest that is dishless in 9spd, what ever that come down to. Bend chainstays to give heel some space, no biggie.

Wider forks will be stiffer also. Possibly a weight-saving change.

]]> By: Mike http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35812 Mike Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:05:30 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35812 I'm not sure you would feel the passive suspension of a 4x wheel with such a large volume of air trapped by the tires. Maybe with road wheels and 100psi. I’m not sure you would feel the passive suspension of a 4x wheel with such a large volume of air trapped by the tires. Maybe with road wheels and 100psi.

]]> By: Desert9r http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35811 Desert9r Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:01:34 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35811 I was just think the other day, I have never seen anyone actually using a 4x wheel. I would think the longer spokes needed would add to a 29er "passive" suspension, atleast to some degree. I was just think the other day, I have never seen anyone actually using a 4x wheel. I would think the longer spokes needed would add to a 29er “passive” suspension, atleast to some degree.

]]> By: Mike http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35809 Mike Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:56:08 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35809 Almost forgot to add, when WTB introduced their Phoenix, you could get a frame made with 140mm spacing to eliminate dish. Coincidentally, WTB also produced 140mm spaced hubs. I'm surprised that the industry didn't adopt 140mm spacing when 9-speed came out. There was some polling by Shimano among the industry to ask this question, but it came to naught. I like the wider, lighter, XC front ends that are coming. And 32 spokes is more than sufficient for XC wheel strength. Almost forgot to add, when WTB introduced their Phoenix, you could get a frame made with 140mm spacing to eliminate dish. Coincidentally, WTB also produced 140mm spaced hubs. I’m surprised that the industry didn’t adopt 140mm spacing when 9-speed came out. There was some polling by Shimano among the industry to ask this question, but it came to naught.

I like the wider, lighter, XC front ends that are coming.

And 32 spokes is more than sufficient for XC wheel strength.

]]> By: Mike http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35808 Mike Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:46:11 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35808 "Are there any compromises to having 150mm rear spacing?" - Not in terms of the wheel itself. There are compromises, however, in terms of what 150mm rear spacing does to front chainline. With 150mm spacing, which is used on freeride bikes, you would use an 83mm wide bb shell to get a chainline of 56mm that matches up with the rear spacing. For a DH type bike, this is okay as widening the entire drivetrain nets you more clearance for big tires. For XC type riding, it alters your body geometry (to borrow Specialized's term) with regards to where your feet are pedaling beneath your pelvis. Kind of a bow-legged feel. I believe there are resources available that make 29" wheels sufficiently strong. Choosing the appropriate rim, spoke gauge, and, most important of all, spoke tension should be sufficient for 99% of the folks. Don't go all weight weanie on the rim and spoke if you are a bid dude or have an aggressive riding style. Asymmetric rims used in the rear to get less dish due to the gears and used in the front to reduce dish due to the brake are a good choice to increase wheel strength and to more equally balance tension in the spokes between the right and left. “Are there any compromises to having 150mm rear spacing?” - Not in terms of the wheel itself. There are compromises, however, in terms of what 150mm rear spacing does to front chainline. With 150mm spacing, which is used on freeride bikes, you would use an 83mm wide bb shell to get a chainline of 56mm that matches up with the rear spacing. For a DH type bike, this is okay as widening the entire drivetrain nets you more clearance for big tires. For XC type riding, it alters your body geometry (to borrow Specialized’s term) with regards to where your feet are pedaling beneath your pelvis. Kind of a bow-legged feel.

I believe there are resources available that make 29″ wheels sufficiently strong. Choosing the appropriate rim, spoke gauge, and, most important of all, spoke tension should be sufficient for 99% of the folks. Don’t go all weight weanie on the rim and spoke if you are a bid dude or have an aggressive riding style.

Asymmetric rims used in the rear to get less dish due to the gears and used in the front to reduce dish due to the brake are a good choice to increase wheel strength and to more equally balance tension in the spokes between the right and left.

]]> By: Marz http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35795 Marz Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:55:53 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35795 I already have spoke to caliper clearance problems with my standard flanged Hugi front hub. it requires 2 spacer washers on the hub to maintain good clearance through hard riding.... A taller flange will only agrravate this problem... any tips to remedy this - the larger the wheel the smaller the angle away from the hub to the rim? I already have spoke to caliper clearance problems with my standard flanged Hugi front hub. it requires 2 spacer washers on the hub to maintain good clearance through hard riding…. A taller flange will only agrravate this problem…

any tips to remedy this - the larger the wheel the smaller the angle away from the hub to the rim?

]]> By: jncarpenter http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35791 jncarpenter Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:49:04 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2008/02/26/a-question-of-wheel-strength/#comment-35791 Actually, I believe JJ uses a SS cassette hub with 5/6 gears & little/ no dish. I have 3 sets of I9 wheels, 2 being 29ers...1 SS & 1 9 Speed. I definitely notice the ss wheel is a touch stiffer. In both cases the same spokes & rims are used. Actually, I believe JJ uses a SS cassette hub with 5/6 gears & little/ no dish. I have 3 sets of I9 wheels, 2 being 29ers…1 SS & 1 9 Speed. I definitely notice the ss wheel is a touch stiffer. In both cases the same spokes & rims are used.

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