Comments on: 650B: Is Their Life After The Buzz?

By: Gliderman

Gliderman — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:23:41 +0000

Just some thought from the sidelines here… Coming from a shop that carries most tire sizes, 650B has always been an obscure tire sizes. It’s too bad we are so far into the 650B thing because I would have be far happier expanding my existing range of 26 x 1 3/8 tires, also known as 650A, or 590s, than introducing a totally new tire size that was never really sold in North America, except the occasional mountain bike sold during the late 70’s early 80’s. Certainly the 29er market has benefited from being the established 700c (622) wheel size - I’m certainly happy we’ve finally sold our 700 x 47 Panaracer Smokes that we got stuck with many years ago, after Bianchi dropped their Project line. But for the LBSs to be able to sell the merits of the 650B will be a stretch. It is easly to explain 29ers are the same size wheel as road bikes or hybrids. Other than the problems then associated with short 1″ headtubes, the Bianchi Project line was sellable for the same reasons that hybrids outsell comfort bikes (26″ wheeled hybrids) - they ride better. That was a difference that worked for many of our customers that bought the Bianchis. But 650B is better because why? Are they from France?? It was a dying tire size that was revived because why?? Whatever the merits of reviving the 584 tire sizes (which I fully support in the road world for many reasons), the 26 x 1 3/8 (aka 650A) would have been an easier story to tell and a more appropriate tire size to expand into off road capabilities. - “this is a tire size that was found on almost all three speed and five speed bikes make in Europe, Canada, Japan, US, etc up to the mid eighties and makes a great inbetween size ” or something like that. Unfortunately, we are too far into 650B to find a place for 650A except on old three speeds and road bike conversions done on the cheap… Long live the Sun CR18!

By: Dirt McGirt

Dirt McGirt — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:54:03 +0000

Too……..many…………words………..headache……….everything getting dark…………….. can’t feel………….legs……….

By: Arleigh

Arleigh — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:35:16 +0000

Thanks for the plug GTed. I am getting a 650b bike and I hope to have a set of demo wheels in hands by next weekend to put on my 26″. I know that geometry/handling won’t be dead on but I’m interested to feel how well the 650b accelerates/rolls over things compared to 26 or 29″.

I hope by the middle of Feb. to have good honest opinions based on riding 650b wheels, and then a 650b demo bike.

By: Guitar Ted

Guitar Ted — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:30:46 +0000

Evan: There are a lot of folks out there like you wondering the same thing. Trouble is, there are a lot of ways to answer your conundrum and not all of them will work for you.

Some would say that, yes: 650B is the way to go for you. Some would say stick to your 26″ers, some would argue a mixed wheel size bike would be “the best of both worlds”. I see all sorts of shorter folks on 29″ers. Really short folks. I know some that can ride circles around most on a 29″er.

Here is cycling’s dirty little secret. …………It is not the bike, it is the rider.

That said, for your situation it will require you to try something out. Yes, that may mean you will make a mistake, but to finally find that bike that makes riding off road so much fun, it is worth it. I found that with 29″ers. It revolutionized the way I rode. Would it work for you? Don’t know and can’t say.

I would suggest this though. A 650B is very close to the feel and handling of a 26″er. It has a wee bit of the bigger wheeled traits. I don’t think you would hate a 650B bike, and for sure, there would not be any geometry concerns at your height. I do know a 29″er would work as well, but the handling would be way different, (in most cases) than any 26 inch wheeled bike. Lots of folks would say it is better.

Watch for an upcoming series on Crooked Cog Network here detailing Arleigh’s foray into custom bikes. She is getting a 650B rig done up for her. You might find it interesting to see her take on it, especially since she has ridden several 29″ers.

By: Evan

Evan — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:05:17 +0000

I’m 5′ 6″ and I think that’s pretty much on the cusp of being able to see the benefits of a 9er without suffering through all sorts of geometry contortions to achieve both proper fit and handling, not to mention the weight penalty that is relatively more pronounced on smaller/lighter riders. I think the 650b wheel might be a good choice for me, but I’m still in need of more information. Unfortunately, I am not blessed by a huge rider population nearby that would offer the opportunity to try multiple bike/wheel combinations.

I’m looking for something that will complement my Yeti 575 (a brilliant FS bike for smaller riders, by the way). I’m looking for a hardtail for certain, something that I can race everything from short track to endurance. Something better suited to miles and miles of not-too-technical terrain like we have here in NE Oregon and Idaho. Would a 650b be a better choice for me than a 29er? I wish I had an answer to that question.

By: Brendan

Brendan — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:17:46 +0000

I like it when GTed seems grumpy! I found this whole discussion entertaining, and interesting, all on it’s own in that it really illustrates just how dorked out we all are. The head wrench at my LBS was musing about 650b the other night and summed it up pretty well: “29ers were dorky and now they’re normal, but 650b? Man, that’s like taped up glasses and pocket protectors and stuff” You’re way out there in bike geek land if you’re into those already”. Of course he meant this in a good way, or at least I think so..

By: Arleigh

Arleigh — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:28:10 +0000

Mark

I’m excited to see that you are open to the idea of 650b and that it just doesn’t suit your riding style.

Makes you seem much less grumpy

By: Guitar Ted

Guitar Ted — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:52:10 +0000

neener-niner: Mind made up? Well, I’m sure of what I believe, that is true. And for the record, I am willing to entertain a convincing argument. (That should be apparent from the number of comments here)

Looking forward to any and all 650B developments. I have ridden one I might consider owning, but to my mind isn’t as perfect for me as my 29″ers are. Those big wheels have characteristics that appeal to me and my riding style more so than smaller sizes do.

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it.

By: neener-niner

neener-niner — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:27:56 +0000

Well Ted,

I guess your mind is made up. Apparently, (according to your own writings) it was made up before you ever rode a 650b bike. Hmmm, go figure? I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Pearls before swine and all….

At 6′4″ I’m pretty sure I’ll not bother with smaller wheels. But I do think they have strong potential. it will be interesting to see how it all pans out in a few years. fwiw, I am glad I don’t have a dog in this race, it wouldn’t be as much fun to watch!

sholom aleichem

By: Guitar Ted

Guitar Ted — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:47:55 +0000

My response is bracketed:

GT: “29″ers paved the way.�?

NN: No argument here, but I am not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

[Well. if it isn't obvious that before 29"ers there wasn't a real choice in wheelsize then going any further with this discussion is pointless. 29"ers got people thinking about choices. Make sense?]

GT: “history shows us that it didn’t take off at all.�?

NN: History also shows there were much larger forces at work to cause the early demise of the 650b mtb. It seems that several of the founding father, GF included, preferred the wheel size to 26″ but simply could not get them. If this 650b thing takes off, I would not be surprised to hear GF take the credit for it.

[Actually, Tom Ritchey was a big proponent. The thing was, there was so little difference between 650B and 26 inch that the easier path was chosen. If the difference would have been a dramatic one, one worth pursuing, then 650B wouldn't have gone away so quietly. In fact, some manufacturers even produced runs of 650B mountain bikes, one of which, a Raleigh Mountain Tour Tamarack, I actually owned. So, it was actually marketed and tried, then abandoned. "Larger forces" can be blamed if you want to use that terminology. Perhaps we will look back and say the same thing about 26"ers, 29"ers, or 650B? Whatever. The fact remains that it didn't take root. ]

GT: “internet marketing is far, far more intense than it ever was for 29″ers.�?

NN: God bless the internet; the free market system at its best! People use what tools are available to them. Do you think it would have been any different tor 29ers had they had a similar outlet for promotion and dispersal of information?

[Sure I do. Don't you? Seems like a no brainer to me. ]

GT: “That individual has a huge monetary stake in seeing that 650B takes off �?

NN: Isn’t that what people go into business for? I’m sure Mark Slate had some expectation of making a return on the first 29er tire too. One could make the same argument about your POV. I assume this site represents some commercial interest for you, and the promotion of 29″ wheels helps make money for you. Ad revenue, free product, fame and adulation from countless throngs of 29er faithful. Now who’s being naive?

[Sure Mark Slate wants to make money,(obviously), but he didn't haunt an internet site and use it as a defacto site to sell his wares against the forums own policies. (Not that it really matters, just pointing out a fact) As to my motivations, you make several assumptions and I would caution you that you haven't a clue what my motivations are. For one thing, it doesn't matter one whit to me whether I get "free product, fame and adulation from countless throngs of 29er (sic) faithful." You are certainly going to believe whatever you want to, but as to this point, be sure I mean what I say. Naive? Go look elsewhere for that. ]

GT: “I think the reality of what you are seeing is being driven by a completely different set of motivations than what we saw seven or eight years ago with 29″ers.�?

NN: Are you saying that you have some special insight into the mind of the person behind this? You can judge someones motives? That is a rare and special gift! Or are you saying that the development of 29ers was done for some higher, altruistic reason?

[ I can observe and make a judgment call based upon what I observe. I discern that an individual is driving the majority of the product development and hype surrounding 650B. It's as obvious as the nose on a persons face. 29"ers did not develop from a model like this. It could have, (Wes Williams might be said to fit that mold), but 29"ers came out of a different set of circumstances that doesn't resemble what I see happening with 650B. That's my take and I stand by it.]

NN: It seams to me the couple of people promoting this wheel size most, have had pretty distingiushed careers in the bike industry. I don’t see this as a part of some “get rich quick�? scheme, to the contrary, it seems like a pretty big risk to me. Perhaps with as much experience as the proponents of the 650B have going into this project, there are some legitimate design reasons for a reduction in wheel size that the average bike shop employee can’t see?

[Well, thanks for the vote of confidence in the "average bike shop employee". Again, I would submit to you that this paragraph you have written could apply to several business people involved in all aspects of the bike industry. Nothing special here that singles out 650B or experience. Besides, experience doesn't exclude mistakes, poor judgment, success, or good design. It is how that experience is used that matters.

I won't speak for the "average bike shop employee", but I remain unconvinced that 650B will attain anything near the success of 29"ers, or have anywhere near the impact that 29"ers have had. If they end up doing so, I will admit it with great joy, because as I have said, they are after all just bicycle wheels, and riding bikes is what matters most. ]