Comments on: Gary Fisher HiFi Deluxe 29″er: The Technology of the Ride http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/ 29er Bike Reviews, Rumors and News Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:35:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Desert9r http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30348 Desert9r Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:02:51 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30348 I might just get a feel for that geometry, the owner of my LBS is selling an Inbred 456 frame, a little alter but I have heard its a SWeet ride! I might just get a feel for that geometry, the owner of my LBS is selling an Inbred 456 frame, a little alter but I have heard its a SWeet ride!

]]> By: jeremy Uk http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30338 jeremy Uk Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:58:19 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30338 I'm in England and thinking of getting a 16" inbred 29er. It's set up at 71degree head angle and a 470mm fork with a 58mm BB drop If I were to wait maybe 8 months then I could put on a G2 fork at 100mm and about 510 length. Running maybe 20mm of sag would still leave me a slacker head angle and I'd just need an inline seatpost to compensate. The BB would be maybe 8mm higher so I'd end up with a BB 3mm higher than a G2 ali Fisher hardtail and a head angle pretty close to the Fishers, maybe a hair steeper. There must be quite a few makes around with similar geometry that could be altered. I’m in England and thinking of getting a 16″ inbred 29er. It’s set up at 71degree head angle and a 470mm fork with a 58mm BB drop
If I were to wait maybe 8 months then I could put on a G2 fork at 100mm and about 510 length.
Running maybe 20mm of sag would still leave me a slacker head angle and I’d just need an inline seatpost to compensate. The BB would be maybe 8mm higher so I’d end up with a BB 3mm higher than a G2 ali Fisher hardtail and a head angle pretty close to the Fishers, maybe a hair steeper.
There must be quite a few makes around with similar geometry that could be altered.

]]> By: Jared http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30277 Jared Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:18:38 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30277 Just for the record: Per the GF 2008 catalog the HA on the G2 full-squish geom is 71 (69.9 sagged) and 69.9 on hardtails (w/ the exception of the small and medium sizes which are 69.3) Just for the record: Per the GF 2008 catalog the HA on the G2 full-squish geom is 71 (69.9 sagged) and 69.9 on hardtails (w/ the exception of the small and medium sizes which are 69.3)

]]> By: Davidcopperfield http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30271 Davidcopperfield Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:55:28 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30271 Of course for DH 29ers we need about 90-100mm offset- just a guess. Just a Typo I meant a TRAIL. sorry. Of course for DH 29ers we need about 90-100mm offset- just a guess. Just a Typo I meant a TRAIL. sorry.

]]> By: Davidcopperfield http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30270 Davidcopperfield Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:42:54 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30270 Yes, that is of course correct what you say about DH 26" - (I put it forth just as an example of slack HTA), however do you think that for instance 68 HTA with with about 75mm (the equivalent of 51mm with 71 HTA) offset is better or worse than 71 + 51mm? Which one is more the most perpendicular angle to bumps&obstacles? You clearly remarked that GF staff wiped the slate clean, in fact, they did it with offset and srted with old and reliable HTA 71 which was settled in 26er world long ago. Why didn't they start from the scratch entirely? I mean one can argue that the most perpendicular fork level is at 70,5 with about 54mm offset with further shorter TT from original G 2. Or 70 with 57,5mm. Or the slacker-more offset (under 71 + over 51mm) package will deteriorate uphill climbing? How much trail would you/one see on DH 29ers at least and at most and how slack could we venture + how much offset. Of course for DH 29ers we need about 90-100mm offset- just a guess, and whatever the trail number how can we achieve it? how slack with how much offset? These are fundamental questions which question the geometry. Yes, that is of course correct what you say about DH 26″ - (I put it forth just as an example of slack HTA), however do you think that for instance 68 HTA with with about 75mm (the equivalent of 51mm with 71 HTA) offset is better or worse than 71 + 51mm? Which one is more the most perpendicular angle to bumps&obstacles?

You clearly remarked that GF staff wiped the slate clean, in fact, they did it with offset and srted with old and reliable HTA 71 which was settled in 26er world long ago.
Why didn’t they start from the scratch entirely?
I mean one can argue that the most perpendicular fork level is at 70,5 with about 54mm offset with further shorter TT from original G 2. Or 70 with 57,5mm.

Or the slacker-more offset (under 71 + over 51mm) package will deteriorate uphill climbing?

How much trail would you/one see on DH 29ers at least and at most and how slack could we venture + how much offset. Of course for DH 29ers we need about 90-100mm offset- just a guess, and whatever the trail number how can we achieve it? how slack with how much offset?
These are fundamental questions which question the geometry.

]]> By: Guitar Ted http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30267 Guitar Ted Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:10:07 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30267 Davidcopperfield: I think we might have an excellent case of an example of "diminishing returns" here. Think about this: It is obvious that at a certain steepness of head angle that a suspension fork starts to become less effective. Conversely we can say that at a certain slack angle we will notice the same thing, that is the suspension fork starts to work less effectively. Traditional thought is that a suspension fork works best at a perpendicular angle to bump forces. Taking these basic theories into account I think it is fair to say that a certain degree of head angles will produce the best results for a given application in mountain biking. Your example of DH/FR/AM bikes is a bit extreme when taken into consideration that most 29"ers that are using suspension are geared towards XC/Trail riding today. To have a precise steering bike is one thing, but to have a really quick handling DH rig is not necessarily desirable. In fact, it is usually seen as a detriment to that sort of discipline. I think G2 is best suited to XC/Trail type riding and therefore the head angles best suited to that sort of riding/suspension fork performance are about where we are today. 70-72 degrees for 29"ers. Davidcopperfield: I think we might have an excellent case of an example of “diminishing returns” here. Think about this: It is obvious that at a certain steepness of head angle that a suspension fork starts to become less effective. Conversely we can say that at a certain slack angle we will notice the same thing, that is the suspension fork starts to work less effectively. Traditional thought is that a suspension fork works best at a perpendicular angle to bump forces.

Taking these basic theories into account I think it is fair to say that a certain degree of head angles will produce the best results for a given application in mountain biking. Your example of DH/FR/AM bikes is a bit extreme when taken into consideration that most 29″ers that are using suspension are geared towards XC/Trail riding today. To have a precise steering bike is one thing, but to have a really quick handling DH rig is not necessarily desirable. In fact, it is usually seen as a detriment to that sort of discipline.

I think G2 is best suited to XC/Trail type riding and therefore the head angles best suited to that sort of riding/suspension fork performance are about where we are today. 70-72 degrees for 29″ers.

]]> By: Davidcopperfield http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30266 Davidcopperfield Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:47:01 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30266 @ Guitar Ted I posed a legitimate question on mtbr.com and one could ever answer it. It flows like this "what is the best angle at which sus. fork compresses?" Why G2- 71 HTA on hi fies with 51mm. why 69 HTA with 51mm why is there such a diffrence within GII? And if 69 HTA why not mate it with 60mm offset forks? Do you think that 69 HTA with 60mm around offset forks + shortened Top tube by the odd amount of mm, would be more efficient or 71 HTA + 51mm is just the best? DH 26 ers have 67-68 HTA and do pretty well therefore we could make a 67 HTA + 65-75mm offset fork 29er? We would get this same trail amount as on 71 HTA + 51mm but how would these bikes differe from another supposing that we appropriately shortened top tube to suit hta+offset combo to get this same wheel base. Has anyone of you expertise on this one? @ Guitar Ted I posed a legitimate question on mtbr.com and one could ever answer it.
It flows like this “what is the best angle at which sus. fork compresses?” Why G2- 71 HTA on hi fies with 51mm. why 69 HTA with 51mm why is there such a diffrence within GII?
And if 69 HTA why not mate it with 60mm offset forks? Do you think that 69 HTA with 60mm around offset forks + shortened Top tube by the odd amount of mm, would be more efficient or 71 HTA + 51mm is just the best?
DH 26 ers have 67-68 HTA and do pretty well therefore we could make a 67 HTA + 65-75mm offset fork 29er? We would get this same trail amount as on 71 HTA + 51mm but how would these bikes differe from another supposing that we appropriately shortened top tube to suit hta+offset combo to get this same wheel base.

Has anyone of you expertise on this one?

]]> By: Bruce http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30255 Bruce Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:59:27 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30255 What?????? I love my Supercaliber!!!!!!! What?????? I love my Supercaliber!!!!!!!

]]> By: BunE http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30246 BunE Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:10:42 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30246 As of Today the Super Cal 29 is off of the GF website. As of Today the Super Cal 29 is off of the GF website.

]]> By: Dirt McGirt http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30233 Dirt McGirt Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:13:06 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2007/12/08/gary-fisher-hifi-deluxe-29er-the-technology-of-the-ride/#comment-30233 GT- Way to school it. I couldn't have done it better myself! GT- Way to school it. I couldn’t have done it better myself!

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