Comments on: Are Twenty Nine Inches Safer? http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/ 29er Bike Reviews, Rumors and News Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:17:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Vandal http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-24623 Vandal Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:09:38 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-24623 My previous post sort of missed the topic of "are 29ers better for novices" and focused on the Blue Collar topic of single speeders. Regardless, my main point of making a first timer's experience as easy and enjoyable as possible still remains. In the case of 29ers, the big wheels make the gearing about 10% higher making every climb 10% steeper. This may be not so good for a young kid getting on their first adult bike or a weak rider that needs the lowest gears possible. On the other hand, perhaps the big wheels, by smoothing out the ride, will make the experience more enjoyable. Let the newbie decide for themselves on a test ride. This comes down to the fit and feel of the bike to the rider. Whatever feels more comfortable and more controllable will be the bike that encourages the novice to ride more, try more challenging terrain and buy more bikes. My previous post sort of missed the topic of “are 29ers better for novices” and focused on the Blue Collar topic of single speeders. Regardless, my main point of making a first timer’s experience as easy and enjoyable as possible still remains. In the case of 29ers, the big wheels make the gearing about 10% higher making every climb 10% steeper. This may be not so good for a young kid getting on their first adult bike or a weak rider that needs the lowest gears possible. On the other hand, perhaps the big wheels, by smoothing out the ride, will make the experience more enjoyable. Let the newbie decide for themselves on a test ride. This comes down to the fit and feel of the bike to the rider. Whatever feels more comfortable and more controllable will be the bike that encourages the novice to ride more, try more challenging terrain and buy more bikes.

]]> By: Vandal http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-24622 Vandal Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:52:37 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-24622 The number one priority for a bike shop selling a bike to a novice is to sell them a bike they will enjoy riding so that they will continue to participate in the sport for many years to come. I don't believe a mountain bike with one gear is the right bike to give an encouraging first impression to a first-time mtber. This individual will find that a ss hinders them more than encourages them. Honestly, it's natural human nature to dislike things that are too hard to do. A novice needs a bike that will make riding trails feel as easy as possible. This way, they get a positive first impression of the activity. (This also implies that a full suspension bike is better for novices, but most won't want to put up the extra grand it takes to get into a quality fs bike.) Entry-level road bikes come with triple chainrings or compact gearing to make climbing hills easier. This is necessary because the typical first-time road biker does not have the physical strength to climb extended hills in a 49/23 gear. A first-timer riding this gear on anything but the most gentle terrain would likely go sour on the idea of putting out that level of exertion all the time. Similarly, a first-time mtb buyer will need gears that enable them to explore the trails at will without being overwhelmed by the effort required. Gears will encourage this rider to explore more and will plant the idea that it's worthwhile to someday buy a new, more expensive bike that can offer better durability and performance, lighter weight and capabilities suited to more adventurous riding. Not only this, but geared bikes help the novice keep up with the rest of their friends. This is highly important because biking is a very social activity. Group rides are a staple activity provided by every bike shop worth its salt. If a new rider can keep up with the group, they'll continue to ride with the group. I know plenty of riders at my local shop that ride with the Monday night beginners' group. The most common story of accomplishment I hear from these riders is about finally making it up a certain pair of steep climbs with some roots at the top. These riders are super stoked to clean these climbs and couldn't care less how low the gear they needed to do so was. Only after meeting that challenge will they have the confidence and enthusiasm to consider trying these climbs in a higher gear. A single-speed, on the other hand, will discourage the newbie from attempting steeper climbs and more technical trails and pushing their boundaries. This person will be less likely to embrace the sport and become a regular bike shop customer. If this is not achieved, the whole industry suffers. The number one priority for a bike shop selling a bike to a novice is to sell them a bike they will enjoy riding so that they will continue to participate in the sport for many years to come. I don’t believe a mountain bike with one gear is the right bike to give an encouraging first impression to a first-time mtber. This individual will find that a ss hinders them more than encourages them. Honestly, it’s natural human nature to dislike things that are too hard to do. A novice needs a bike that will make riding trails feel as easy as possible. This way, they get a positive first impression of the activity. (This also implies that a full suspension bike is better for novices, but most won’t want to put up the extra grand it takes to get into a quality fs bike.)
Entry-level road bikes come with triple chainrings or compact gearing to make climbing hills easier. This is necessary because the typical first-time road biker does not have the physical strength to climb extended hills in a 49/23 gear. A first-timer riding this gear on anything but the most gentle terrain would likely go sour on the idea of putting out that level of exertion all the time.
Similarly, a first-time mtb buyer will need gears that enable them to explore the trails at will without being overwhelmed by the effort required. Gears will encourage this rider to explore more and will plant the idea that it’s worthwhile to someday buy a new, more expensive bike that can offer better durability and performance, lighter weight and capabilities suited to more adventurous riding. Not only this, but geared bikes help the novice keep up with the rest of their friends. This is highly important because biking is a very social activity. Group rides are a staple activity provided by every bike shop worth its salt. If a new rider can keep up with the group, they’ll continue to ride with the group. I know plenty of riders at my local shop that ride with the Monday night beginners’ group. The most common story of accomplishment I hear from these riders is about finally making it up a certain pair of steep climbs with some roots at the top. These riders are super stoked to clean these climbs and couldn’t care less how low the gear they needed to do so was. Only after meeting that challenge will they have the confidence and enthusiasm to consider trying these climbs in a higher gear.
A single-speed, on the other hand, will discourage the newbie from attempting steeper climbs and more technical trails and pushing their boundaries. This person will be less likely to embrace the sport and become a regular bike shop customer. If this is not achieved, the whole industry suffers.

]]> By: bikecop http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5336 bikecop Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:53:42 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5336 on my first demo ride on a GF 29er I felt like I could ride over baby heads without concern for endoing. I was convinced. i got my oldest daughter a MC29er for a college bike. so far we have ridden trails together 4-5 times and she loves it. I agree that 29ers are safer, but not because the CG is lower...it's the same or slightly higher if anything. To get more people to consider 29ers, there needs to be an even cheaper (than the MC29er) geared version as an entry level for older kids & beginner adults...i'm thinking $300-$350 range. it can be heavy, just so long as it has good brakes and durable components. on my first demo ride on a GF 29er I felt like I could ride over baby heads without concern for endoing. I was convinced. i got my oldest daughter a MC29er for a college bike. so far we have ridden trails together 4-5 times and she loves it.
I agree that 29ers are safer, but not because the CG is lower…it’s the same or slightly higher if anything.
To get more people to consider 29ers, there needs to be an even cheaper (than the MC29er) geared version as an entry level for older kids & beginner adults…i’m thinking $300-$350 range. it can be heavy, just so long as it has good brakes and durable components.

]]> By: trainwreck http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5308 trainwreck Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:24:19 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5308 my presonal opinion is twenty niner for everyone that is over 5'6" or that can manage it, and a 26" rear / 29" front combo for shorter riders, and i'll say it again "females that don't like the feel of the heavier rear wheel on the 29". my presonal opinion is twenty niner for everyone that is over 5′6″ or that can manage it, and a 26″ rear / 29″ front combo for shorter riders, and i’ll say it again “females that don’t like the feel of the heavier rear wheel on the 29″.

]]> By: Mark http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5294 Mark Tue, 12 Dec 2006 03:43:06 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5294 Hmmm.... I am an older writer in my 50's and have a raleigh XXIX and a haro mary xc geared. I thought I might like to try a full suspension bike so I bought a cannondale rush 1000....what I found and I would call myself somewhere in the middle as far as rider ability.... was the 26 inch rush would react to terrain esp rocks...loose surfaces in such a way that I would have to say it reacted nervously and I reacted nervously to its response...on the other hand both of my 29ers roll over those same surfaces with barely a yawn...do I push the speed envelope because of it....nope....but I do feel a higher level of control over my own destiny that doesn't extend to overconfidence....I think 29ers are the bike for everyone....by the way the rush sold on ebay shortly after purchase. Hmmm…. I am an older writer in my 50’s and have a raleigh XXIX and a haro mary xc geared. I thought I might like to try a full suspension bike so I bought a cannondale rush 1000….what I found and I would call myself somewhere in the middle as far as rider ability…. was the 26 inch rush would react to terrain esp rocks…loose surfaces in such a way that I would have to say it reacted nervously and I reacted nervously to its response…on the other hand both of my 29ers roll over those same surfaces with barely a yawn…do I push the speed envelope because of it….nope….but I do feel a higher level of control over my own destiny that doesn’t extend to overconfidence….I think 29ers are the bike for everyone….by the way the rush sold on ebay shortly after purchase.

]]> By: willtsmith http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5286 willtsmith Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:51:36 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5286 I've endoed exactly ONCE on my 29er. It happened while I was trying to hop over a steel cable ... DOHH!!!!! I do personally think the 29er would be safer for newbies as they tend to death grip the brakes anytime something goes wrong. It takes a while to get people to understand where the "safe zone" for speed is. That is, stopping the bike is more often than not the WRONG thing to do. It's harder to endo a 29er. This will help for logs, dropoffs, bottom outs and death grips. Regarding single-speed, It would probably be easier to start on one. I have a very hard time teaching newbies to learn how to use their gears. For beginners, it's probably just a distraction away from learning basic bike handling skills like "pedals level" and "weight back going downhill". So yeah, that Redline Monocogue and Raleigh XXIX may very well be the perfect starter bikes. I’ve endoed exactly ONCE on my 29er. It happened while I was trying to hop over a steel cable … DOHH!!!!!

I do personally think the 29er would be safer for newbies as they tend to death grip the brakes anytime something goes wrong. It takes a while to get people to understand where the “safe zone” for speed is. That is, stopping the bike is more often than not the WRONG thing to do.

It’s harder to endo a 29er. This will help for logs, dropoffs, bottom outs and death grips. Regarding single-speed, It would probably be easier to start on one. I have a very hard time teaching newbies to learn how to use their gears. For beginners, it’s probably just a distraction away from learning basic bike handling skills like “pedals level” and “weight back going downhill”.

So yeah, that Redline Monocogue and Raleigh XXIX may very well be the perfect starter bikes.

]]> By: Cloxxki http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5271 Cloxxki Mon, 11 Dec 2006 06:45:59 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5271 The increase in speed may well be below the increase in braking traction and endo-proofness. When in trouble, grab a handful of brake, an things turn for the better. With 26", I had to ease on the brakes especially, as the front could get caught on a tiny twigg and send you flying, or on a slightly moist piece of surface and just slap from under you. The rare 29" endo does hurt, but the frequency of crashes means that I now have zero current bike wounds and just a couple from just as many miles rollerskiing. The increase in speed may well be below the increase in braking traction and endo-proofness.
When in trouble, grab a handful of brake, an things turn for the better.
With 26″, I had to ease on the brakes especially, as the front could get caught on a tiny twigg and send you flying, or on a slightly moist piece of surface and just slap from under you.
The rare 29″ endo does hurt, but the frequency of crashes means that I now have zero current bike wounds and just a couple from just as many miles rollerskiing.

]]> By: Grizzly Boy http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5267 Grizzly Boy Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:45:45 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5267 I think that a 29er would be less safe with a wressless newbie because of the increased speed due to the increase of momentum due to the increase of tire size. At higher speeds there is a greater chance of crashing. Also, stopping is harder due to the the increase of velocity. More technical parts of a trail are more challenging as there is more acceleration and deceleration in a technical spot. A larger and heavier wheel is harder to stop and start, which may cause you to crash. On the other hand, a biker is also less likely to crash as more obstacles are absorbed. Therefore, the wheels are on the ground for longer periods of time, making it easier to avoid much larger obstacles that would stop you dead in your tracks, such as a tree, or a boulder. I think that 29ers would be a bad choice for newbies as there are some magnified problems where a newbie would have difficulty such as technical sections, speed, and stopping and starting because they do not have their "flow" yet and have less control over the bike. A 29er would be harder to control. An intermediate biker might find a 29er safer if their movements are more fluid and would like the idea of absorbing small obstacles without losing speed to better control themselves. In conclusion, a 29er would be bad for newbies and better for experienced bikers. I think that a 29er would be less safe with a wressless newbie because of the increased speed due to the increase of momentum due to the increase of tire size. At higher speeds there is a greater chance of crashing. Also, stopping is harder due to the the increase of velocity. More technical parts of a trail are more challenging as there is more acceleration and deceleration in a technical spot. A larger and heavier wheel is harder to stop and start, which may cause you to crash.

On the other hand, a biker is also less likely to crash as more obstacles are absorbed. Therefore, the wheels are on the ground for longer periods of time, making it easier to avoid much larger obstacles that would stop you dead in your tracks, such as a tree, or a boulder.

I think that 29ers would be a bad choice for newbies as there are some magnified problems where a newbie would have difficulty such as technical sections, speed, and stopping and starting because they do not have their “flow” yet and have less control over the bike. A 29er would be harder to control. An intermediate biker might find a 29er safer if their movements are more fluid and would like the idea of absorbing small obstacles without losing speed to better control themselves. In conclusion, a 29er would be bad for newbies and better for experienced bikers.

]]> By: Guitar Ted http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5245 Guitar Ted Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:07:47 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5245 monk3y mike: Just want to point out that your Lev should be harder to mount/dismount than you other hardtails since it is a full suspension bike. Typically full suspension bikes have higher bottom brackets to account for suspension sag. I've also noted that as you dismount a full suspension bike, the sag is in rebound mode as you are trying to get off making the bike a bit more difficult to dismount until you get used to it. This goes for any wheel size. Nice to here that you are a 29"er devotee. Sounds like you have an awfull nice stable of bikes there! monk3y mike: Just want to point out that your Lev should be harder to mount/dismount than you other hardtails since it is a full suspension bike. Typically full suspension bikes have higher bottom brackets to account for suspension sag. I’ve also noted that as you dismount a full suspension bike, the sag is in rebound mode as you are trying to get off making the bike a bit more difficult to dismount until you get used to it. This goes for any wheel size.

Nice to here that you are a 29″er devotee. Sounds like you have an awfull nice stable of bikes there!

]]> By: monk3y mike http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5240 monk3y mike Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:00:08 +0000 http://twentynineinches.com/2006/12/08/twenty-nine-inches-safer/#comment-5240 Ted, Cloxxki: I think you guys have misinterpreted what I was saying, and my view on 29ers. Not all bikes (just be cause they have the same wheelsize have the same feel, clearance, or handling. My Lenz Leviathan is noticeably taller than my Niner SIR or my Curtlo 29er SS. I am a die-hard 29er rider (and have been for many years) and don't own anything with less than a 700c wheel. My point was that some 29ers (especially full suspension) "ride" higher and require more confidence and handling ability to get off of in case of emergency, which would be a problem for a newbie. As far as height, I am 5' 11" and have no problems. But I have found that 29er models are "sized" one size smaller than what I would ride in a 26er. I always rode a 19" or Large frame size. Now everything I have is in a 17-18" or Medium size. The blanket statement of "all" riders I know maybe should be "most". Most 29er owners I know have replaced their entire stable because the bigger bike made more sense for their body size. Their logic is that wheelsize should be somewhat proportional to body size for comfort and performance. I totally agree with momentum savings, stability and rolling over things. But I don't totally disagree with the idea that 29ers are markedly "safer" because "we" believe they handle better (although they do). It depends on the rider, and what is being ridden (i.e. I perceive my 29er SS hardtail to be "safer" than my 29er FS). At any rate, I would be interested to see a study with newbie riders on 26er versus 29er for initial impressions and rideability. My dogs want out now, so I'll stop ranting. (although it's always fun to do so with y'all!) Ted, Cloxxki:

I think you guys have misinterpreted what I was saying, and my view on 29ers.

Not all bikes (just be cause they have the same wheelsize have the same feel, clearance, or handling. My Lenz Leviathan is noticeably taller than my Niner SIR or my Curtlo 29er SS. I am a die-hard 29er rider (and have been for many years) and don’t own anything with less than a 700c wheel. My point was that some 29ers (especially full suspension) “ride” higher and require more confidence and handling ability to get off of in case of emergency, which would be a problem for a newbie.

As far as height, I am 5′ 11″ and have no problems. But I have found that 29er models are “sized” one size smaller than what I would ride in a 26er. I always rode a 19″ or Large frame size. Now everything I have is in a 17-18″ or Medium size.

The blanket statement of “all” riders I know maybe should be “most”. Most 29er owners I know have replaced their entire stable because the bigger bike made more sense for their body size. Their logic is that wheelsize should be somewhat proportional to body size for comfort and performance.

I totally agree with momentum savings, stability and rolling over things.

But I don’t totally disagree with the idea that 29ers are markedly “safer” because “we” believe they handle better (although they do). It depends on the rider, and what is being ridden (i.e. I perceive my 29er SS hardtail to be “safer” than my 29er FS).

At any rate, I would be interested to see a study with newbie riders on 26er versus 29er for initial impressions and rideability.

My dogs want out now, so I’ll stop ranting. (although it’s always fun to do so with y’all!)

]]>