Are Twenty Nine Inches Safer?
December 8th, 2006 by Tim GrahlI posted a couple days ago on our sister site, Blue Collar Mountain Biking, posing a question about making singlespeeds (over gears) the entry bike for newbies. There’s some good thoughts on both sides, however I’d like to pose a similar question here…
Should we be pushing 29ers as the entry bike for newbies? While I believe that big wheels are better in most situations anyway, I’m wondering if this would be a good thing for the sport of mountain biking as a whole.
With the bigger wheels it lowers the center of gravity which makes it harder to flip over the handlebars. So in getting new people on bikes, if putting them on a 29er lowers the amount of crashes, shouldn’t the sport be moving towards them as starter bikes?
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i have a hard time recommending anything other than the redline monocog 29er to newbies on a budget. it’s an affordable way to start, it satisfies the dual curiosity about 29er and ss, and it’s upgrade friendly for disc brakes or a suspension fork later on. even if one goes on to get other bikes there will always be a place in the stable for the redline. plan on getting a different headset, though….
especially in relation to taller people, the 26 vs. 29 debate is starting to remind me alot of the l.p. vs. compact disc debate 20 years ago. will people who are 6′2″ be buying 26 wheels twenty years from now? in significant numbers?
Endos are a result of recklessness. I recommend newbies avoid recklessness. If everything we’re saying about 29ers is true then we’re going faster, rolling harder terrain, cornering better thus pushing the limits of the bike in the same manner as before with no loss in endo possibilities.
Newbies are probably more concerned with ganking their nutz on the highass toptubes on 29ers. Maybe if we can get some more radically sloping top tubes with freakishly long seat posts.
-M
Reckless or not, I was a decent MTB handler when I kept endo’ing my lovely VooDoo bikes. 29″ ended that nearly completely. I can be on my absolute limit for longer than an hour of XC racing and despite mistakes in tricky places, I just hardly ever had to as much as unclick a shoe. I was all over the place with 26″. Then, I’m a grown man, the 29″ fits me better.
When Gary Fisher was asked by the UCI to be the advocate for 29″er to explain why the rulebook should make room for them in legislated racing, his main plead was SAFETY.
Early “review” and “reports” in the magazines even labeled 29″er as “for older folks”.
IMO, 29″er are better for bike riders.
“Should we be pushing 29ers as the entry bike for newbies” Yes, if they are TALL… Short folks can get away with the kid sized wheels..
I have to sit on the fence too for this one. 29ers may be better entry-level bikes for some riders, but I agree with the notion that physical size does play a part. My Lenz Leviathan is far more cumbersome to get on than my old Trek Fuel (comparable design-wise), and doesn’t make for quick bailouts (My Niner S.I.R. is a different story). So while endoing may be less likely (and I say less because I still endo now and again), there are some concessions to safety dependent on rider size.
Have a good weekend everyone!
I endoed with 26ers and the same with 29ers. You have a smigeon more time before you smack the ground with your face on a 29er. As a seasoned rider and crasher I find that I go into corners alot faster on a 29er which as a beginner could be painful and as a result not as much fun as rippin it with a 26 inch. For a tall person ya 29er is the way to go. I feel it doesnt matter what you ride as long as your ridin and having fun. Keep the rubber side down or have good health insurance….E
The problem I’m seeing here seems to be that alot of us are not looking at the problem with a beginners eyes. While it’s true we can attain to higher speeds on a 29″er, beginners won’t likely know, or want to, go that fast. They are going to be concerned about getting over stuff, (a 29″ers strong suit), and not crashing, ( again, another high mark for a 29″er, since they are more stable)
29″ers are only for tall people? Please! This is a misguided view.
As Gary Fisher said to Tim and I out at Interbike, a 29″er can “…buy you grace…” and that is a good thing for a beginner mtb’er.
Grace? maybe… but Ted, seriously. How much easier are 29ers to mount and dismount than similar sized 26ers? My experience with 29ers has been that there is generally more ground to clear getting off and on, and there can be problems putting a foot down with some frame designs. While a 29er may be easier to learn to ride on, do track stands (totally!), and roll over objects easier, there are drawbacks to frame design that would definitely impact certain sectors of the market. My 29ers were all larger than my 26ers (overall), and with that size difference comes certain convenience factors. And regardless of what some theorists may proposes, wheel size should be relative to physical size as well as riding type. I could ride a 24″ wheel bike, but I would never do it offroad. Just as I would never ride a 29″ wheel for trials stuff. Almost all of the 29er riders I know are all 6′ 3″ +, and I would most certainly never give my 8 year old a 29er…
My two cents. And I definitely enjoy the banter.
Are you implying 29″ers have taller BB’s and steeper STA’s? Why would that be?
Ideal wheelsize for non-jumping, non-hopping middle o the road enthusiasts and newbies, IMO is the largest that will fit their bike without requiring imperfect handling geometry. 29″ can be that for riders just under 5 foot tall. For someone 6′, the fit is already “easy”, bigger wheels could be managed, an would have all the obvious trades to offer the rider. and don’t get me starting about rotating weiht I know how insignificant that is, I’ve tested wheels with many kg’s added. As long as we propel bikes with our muscles and not our mind, rotating weight is barely a factor, better focus on pedaling and rolling efficiency, as well as dealing with the terrain at hand. Big wheels help for that.
My ladyfriend had some years of riding behind her, but is still not a natural at the offroads. When she tries a 29″er, it immediately gives her confidence. Like the terrain has become less steep, holes have been filled up, dropoffs smoothed. Perhaps newbies will be able to tell true differences better than us internet browsing bike geeks.
monk3y mike: I think perhaps your experiences with 29″ers have been poor and frankly, not typical. As an example, all my 29″ers saddles are the same height within half an inch of my 26″ers. Standover clearance on two of them is more than any 26″er I’ve ridden. As Cloxxki stated, just because the wheels are bigger doesn’t mean the bottom bracket is higher, (it isn’t) than most 26″ers. This determines saddle height along with crank length.
If all the 29″er riders you know are 6′3″ plus then you are only meting a small number of us. I’m 6′1″ and a very good friend of mine runs a 29″er at 5′10″. I know a dedicated runner from Canada that is probably 5′6″ that sold all his 26″ers after riding a Gary Fisher Rig. I could go on and on. This is what I meant when I posted above, “this is a misguided view”. Most folks have bought into the “29″ers are for big people” theory and it’s just not true.
Thanks for your considered opinions and for posting here. Good discussion brings out ideas and wisdom. Hopefully we are all learning something here!
Ted, Cloxxki:
I think you guys have misinterpreted what I was saying, and my view on 29ers.
Not all bikes (just be cause they have the same wheelsize have the same feel, clearance, or handling. My Lenz Leviathan is noticeably taller than my Niner SIR or my Curtlo 29er SS. I am a die-hard 29er rider (and have been for many years) and don’t own anything with less than a 700c wheel. My point was that some 29ers (especially full suspension) “ride” higher and require more confidence and handling ability to get off of in case of emergency, which would be a problem for a newbie.
As far as height, I am 5′ 11″ and have no problems. But I have found that 29er models are “sized” one size smaller than what I would ride in a 26er. I always rode a 19″ or Large frame size. Now everything I have is in a 17-18″ or Medium size.
The blanket statement of “all” riders I know maybe should be “most”. Most 29er owners I know have replaced their entire stable because the bigger bike made more sense for their body size. Their logic is that wheelsize should be somewhat proportional to body size for comfort and performance.
I totally agree with momentum savings, stability and rolling over things.
But I don’t totally disagree with the idea that 29ers are markedly “safer” because “we” believe they handle better (although they do). It depends on the rider, and what is being ridden (i.e. I perceive my 29er SS hardtail to be “safer” than my 29er FS).
At any rate, I would be interested to see a study with newbie riders on 26er versus 29er for initial impressions and rideability.
My dogs want out now, so I’ll stop ranting. (although it’s always fun to do so with y’all!)
monk3y mike: Just want to point out that your Lev should be harder to mount/dismount than you other hardtails since it is a full suspension bike. Typically full suspension bikes have higher bottom brackets to account for suspension sag. I’ve also noted that as you dismount a full suspension bike, the sag is in rebound mode as you are trying to get off making the bike a bit more difficult to dismount until you get used to it. This goes for any wheel size.
Nice to here that you are a 29″er devotee. Sounds like you have an awfull nice stable of bikes there!
I think that a 29er would be less safe with a wressless newbie because of the increased speed due to the increase of momentum due to the increase of tire size. At higher speeds there is a greater chance of crashing. Also, stopping is harder due to the the increase of velocity. More technical parts of a trail are more challenging as there is more acceleration and deceleration in a technical spot. A larger and heavier wheel is harder to stop and start, which may cause you to crash.
On the other hand, a biker is also less likely to crash as more obstacles are absorbed. Therefore, the wheels are on the ground for longer periods of time, making it easier to avoid much larger obstacles that would stop you dead in your tracks, such as a tree, or a boulder.
I think that 29ers would be a bad choice for newbies as there are some magnified problems where a newbie would have difficulty such as technical sections, speed, and stopping and starting because they do not have their “flow” yet and have less control over the bike. A 29er would be harder to control. An intermediate biker might find a 29er safer if their movements are more fluid and would like the idea of absorbing small obstacles without losing speed to better control themselves. In conclusion, a 29er would be bad for newbies and better for experienced bikers.
The increase in speed may well be below the increase in braking traction and endo-proofness.
When in trouble, grab a handful of brake, an things turn for the better.
With 26″, I had to ease on the brakes especially, as the front could get caught on a tiny twigg and send you flying, or on a slightly moist piece of surface and just slap from under you.
The rare 29″ endo does hurt, but the frequency of crashes means that I now have zero current bike wounds and just a couple from just as many miles rollerskiing.
I’ve endoed exactly ONCE on my 29er. It happened while I was trying to hop over a steel cable … DOHH!!!!!
I do personally think the 29er would be safer for newbies as they tend to death grip the brakes anytime something goes wrong. It takes a while to get people to understand where the “safe zone” for speed is. That is, stopping the bike is more often than not the WRONG thing to do.
It’s harder to endo a 29er. This will help for logs, dropoffs, bottom outs and death grips. Regarding single-speed, It would probably be easier to start on one. I have a very hard time teaching newbies to learn how to use their gears. For beginners, it’s probably just a distraction away from learning basic bike handling skills like “pedals level” and “weight back going downhill”.
So yeah, that Redline Monocogue and Raleigh XXIX may very well be the perfect starter bikes.
Hmmm…. I am an older writer in my 50’s and have a raleigh XXIX and a haro mary xc geared. I thought I might like to try a full suspension bike so I bought a cannondale rush 1000….what I found and I would call myself somewhere in the middle as far as rider ability…. was the 26 inch rush would react to terrain esp rocks…loose surfaces in such a way that I would have to say it reacted nervously and I reacted nervously to its response…on the other hand both of my 29ers roll over those same surfaces with barely a yawn…do I push the speed envelope because of it….nope….but I do feel a higher level of control over my own destiny that doesn’t extend to overconfidence….I think 29ers are the bike for everyone….by the way the rush sold on ebay shortly after purchase.
my presonal opinion is twenty niner for everyone that is over 5′6″ or that can manage it, and a 26″ rear / 29″ front combo for shorter riders, and i’ll say it again “females that don’t like the feel of the heavier rear wheel on the 29″.
on my first demo ride on a GF 29er I felt like I could ride over baby heads without concern for endoing. I was convinced. i got my oldest daughter a MC29er for a college bike. so far we have ridden trails together 4-5 times and she loves it.
I agree that 29ers are safer, but not because the CG is lower…it’s the same or slightly higher if anything.
To get more people to consider 29ers, there needs to be an even cheaper (than the MC29er) geared version as an entry level for older kids & beginner adults…i’m thinking $300-$350 range. it can be heavy, just so long as it has good brakes and durable components.
The number one priority for a bike shop selling a bike to a novice is to sell them a bike they will enjoy riding so that they will continue to participate in the sport for many years to come. I don’t believe a mountain bike with one gear is the right bike to give an encouraging first impression to a first-time mtber. This individual will find that a ss hinders them more than encourages them. Honestly, it’s natural human nature to dislike things that are too hard to do. A novice needs a bike that will make riding trails feel as easy as possible. This way, they get a positive first impression of the activity. (This also implies that a full suspension bike is better for novices, but most won’t want to put up the extra grand it takes to get into a quality fs bike.)
Entry-level road bikes come with triple chainrings or compact gearing to make climbing hills easier. This is necessary because the typical first-time road biker does not have the physical strength to climb extended hills in a 49/23 gear. A first-timer riding this gear on anything but the most gentle terrain would likely go sour on the idea of putting out that level of exertion all the time.
Similarly, a first-time mtb buyer will need gears that enable them to explore the trails at will without being overwhelmed by the effort required. Gears will encourage this rider to explore more and will plant the idea that it’s worthwhile to someday buy a new, more expensive bike that can offer better durability and performance, lighter weight and capabilities suited to more adventurous riding. Not only this, but geared bikes help the novice keep up with the rest of their friends. This is highly important because biking is a very social activity. Group rides are a staple activity provided by every bike shop worth its salt. If a new rider can keep up with the group, they’ll continue to ride with the group. I know plenty of riders at my local shop that ride with the Monday night beginners’ group. The most common story of accomplishment I hear from these riders is about finally making it up a certain pair of steep climbs with some roots at the top. These riders are super stoked to clean these climbs and couldn’t care less how low the gear they needed to do so was. Only after meeting that challenge will they have the confidence and enthusiasm to consider trying these climbs in a higher gear.
A single-speed, on the other hand, will discourage the newbie from attempting steeper climbs and more technical trails and pushing their boundaries. This person will be less likely to embrace the sport and become a regular bike shop customer. If this is not achieved, the whole industry suffers.
My previous post sort of missed the topic of “are 29ers better for novices” and focused on the Blue Collar topic of single speeders. Regardless, my main point of making a first timer’s experience as easy and enjoyable as possible still remains. In the case of 29ers, the big wheels make the gearing about 10% higher making every climb 10% steeper. This may be not so good for a young kid getting on their first adult bike or a weak rider that needs the lowest gears possible. On the other hand, perhaps the big wheels, by smoothing out the ride, will make the experience more enjoyable. Let the newbie decide for themselves on a test ride. This comes down to the fit and feel of the bike to the rider. Whatever feels more comfortable and more controllable will be the bike that encourages the novice to ride more, try more challenging terrain and buy more bikes.